Lord Nagafen and Lady Vox level 52 or lower requirement

Two pages of dealing with idiots who think “who cares lmao” is an argument. Bad inconsistent design is bad inconsistent design, whether it warrants a thread or not.

It is consistent though? All classic era raid dragons have the banishment and have for decades. Because raid mechanics changed in other expansions doesn't mean old stuff is now inconsistent. Should we be arguing for DTs to be removed from Fear golems and Sky targets since solo people can't farm them?

Analogies should be used as an example to help someone understand something. If you are instead using an analogy to try and prove a point, then you are failing to prove your point from the start.

DTs and level 52 cap are two completely different unrelatable and incomparable mechanics.

You should also use the amount of classic era raid dragons that have a level requirement: 2. When you say "all," it's an attempt to make it sound like it's more than it is, but what's worse is that it's not even true, dracoliche has no level requirement.

Has this system ever been utilized before? It doesn't seem like it, so considering it's on only 2 mobs in the whole game I'd call that inconsistent.

If you want to have a discussion about DT for whatever reason, we can do that, but at least have a reason.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3 original raid targets in EQ were Vox/Naggy and Phinny, Fear/Hate were added later. So yes, ALL of the original raid dragons have the banishment, doesn't really matter if its 1 or 2 or 100. Saying its not consistent is not true, all classic dragons have it. DTs and 52 cap are comparable, they are mechanics to the mobs in question. Some mobs banish, some mobs dt, some mobs have AEs, some mobs spawn adds. Mechanics. There are also other mobs that banish, but they tweaked the mechanic a bit and its hate list based instead of level based. By the sounds of it youd like every raid encounter to use the same mechanics to be "consistent". If you want Vox loot either spin up a DZ or go kill Gore, she has the same drops.

You all should be thankful they didn't leave the limit on in aoc's. These mobs are killed 50x a week on the TLP's. 1-2x more or less isn't a big deal.

I wonder if that was intentional or some side effect of the AoC process that they just didnt bother fixing

Except the mechanic DID NOT EXIST when the content was put in the game, or when Kunark was released.

It was put in after the fact after a couple level 60s were able to duo them.

No other mob in the entire game has it. It was stupid then and it was stupid now. As someone (paladin) that sat at level 52 for 9 MONTHS trying to get the vox book for epic, because my guild couldn't kill gore, I have always thought it was absurd.

Yea, this was put into the game because you could go in with a small group of 60s and blow it up but at the time you had a majority of a server not being max level so raiding vox and naggy as lower levels was still very much a thing that existed. I say who cares because I honestly don't care if its there or not, but also at the same time... its stupid that it exists.

It has no reason to exist in the current game. None at all.

But it also has no reason not to exist, on TLP you can spin up a personal DZ every week and kill dragons to your heart's content. If you need a specific drop its also available from Gore or Talendor in Kunark (which also have DZs). It's a relic from an older time, its annoying, but its also flavor. What is removing it going to do? Allow you the opportunity to personally kill 4 white dragons (DZ Vox, OW Gore, DZ Gore and OW Vox) instead of just 3 a week? So you can farm CoF for krono?

It was no more or no less stupid than MOTM is. It was meant to try and make the raid targets not 1 shot pushovers. They are still pushovers, but you just need to deal with some additional mechanics (more hp, no pet aggro etc, or in this case capped levels for OW only).

Stop trying to homogenize the game for no reason.

Don't hurt your back moving those goalposts. What's this competitive crap no one cares about? Anyone who wants to kill the dragons can do so once a week at their leisure already with no level cap, you've yet to explain why adding one more kill on top of the dozens of others is different somehow.

To be entirely fair, DTs are a really poor game mechanic.

(Not arguing they should be removed, just saying... I don't think anyone would be truly upset by their removal, except the "but muh classic" crowd)

Oh for sure, the banishment isn't a great mechanic either, but its part of EQ's "charm".

I explained in the thread that there are people who play competitively. I also explained in the thread that mobs should be spawning a lot faster in OW due to DZs (neither of those points were brought up in the OP, sorry for that). Frankly OW raid targets should drop more loot too. DZ does mostly kill competition, and I think most players don't want to compete. But all of the other OW targets aren't just left up all the time, they are definitely being killed, so there's certainly a chance for competition. I'm not in a competitive guild so I don't know if any racing is actually happening on the latest TLP, but I know it has on prior TLP.

If you've never been in a competitive guild, it can be quite fun, but I'd never want to do it in an environment without DZs ever again, since it gets pretty toxic.

I'm having a real hard time combining "competitive" and "3 expansion old content". There's never 'competition' for these old open world kills, it's someone coming by to kill them in a DZ and noticing they're up so they kill them in OW as well. It's the reason luclin OW mobs are still dead in TSS on Mangler. If the massive piles of OW raid mobs in Kunark and Velious aren't enough competition two dragons aren't going to change anything.

Frankly I'd rather have the mobs up in open world where anyone can go see them without a DZ than waste dev time and add them to another spot on the list of things you'll never see outside of a DZ, aka FV.

Competition does not exist on 22 year content. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nothing competitive about a killing a dragon that's been killed tens of thousands of times which the only mechanic is turning auto attack on and running around a corner every so often. The entire premise of a TLP is to have people experience all content at accelerated speeds. Everything they implement is evidence of making content more accessible to a wider audience: DZs, shortened epic npc timers, picks, and now random/free trade servers. You want competition? You're looking in the wrong place.

If you want any semblance of the competition that's left in EQ, go raid on expansion launches on live where all the minute details and strats aren't well known and broadcasted for the whole world to see for years on end.

The level cap for Naggy and Vox was implemented to remove higher level players from ganking these mobs on cool down. This opened the possibility to more casual, non bleeding edge guilds to have experiences raiding. It actually opened opportunities for a larger audience in the game, regardless of the general perception of some people on this thread. This is still very much the case. A casual guild on a TLP can actually hit an OW target and see what it's like, potentially get their guild some gear, without fearing some random group of elitists will kill the dragon and simply try and sell the loot.

It also gives the not so casual folks a thing to do during the lull of Kunark and Velious when there is not much else to do other than farm plat/krono. Raid logging is arguably more common, and happens quicker, during Kunark-Velious than it is in any other era. So the argument of people needing to waste their time creating alts specifically for killing OW Naggy/Vox is null and void. The reason for doing so is the exact same thing you would be doing on your main anyways - farming plat/krono.

Just because you haven't been a part of a competing guild or aren't interested in competing yourself does not mean that it doesn't exist. It most certainly does, I've done it myself on previous TLP.

And just because it is old content with little difficulty (it is Everquest after all, there is 0 difficulty anywhere), that does not allow you to change the definition of competition. It is competition, period.

The argument against having to level a separate character to kill two targets is 100% a fair and real argument. Especially since no one is even doing that. But facts always seem to go straight out the window with you.

Quite the assumptions there. Who says I didnt do this stuff "competitively" when it was actually new content back in 99-00? I certainly remember doing it.

There's no possible way that you didn't know I was referring to TLP competing, not era. No possible way. The two aren't even remotely the same.

So get a couple buddies, roll some alts and split into 2 groups of lvl 52s and go kill her if you want to compete, no one is stopping you. If they remove the banishment there still won't be competition on these dragons, it will just be 1 group killing them when they are bored.

Compete with who?

So you think no open world targets are ever killed and never competed for?