Classic Class Ratings

Well, I'm sold. Let's all play monks and necro's cause they're the the God tier of training.

Warrior is best tank in group and raid because wariors don't need to med so you will never be waiting on a warrior he is always ready to go.

SHD is the best tank in both group and raid situations in classic EQ. WAR are decent melee DPS that can't hold aggro, and PAL are worse versions of SHD. SHD has more burst damage, sustained damage, sustained healing, better aggro, FD, snare, etc. There's nothing wrong with WAR or PAL, they're generally capable and ideal in particular situations and they excel at their roles as expansions unlock, but if you want to tank in classic, role SHD.

You must have played with some REAL bad SKs...

An SK with a nice slow 2 hander, casting taps in between swings on a full mana burn, will parse near the top on raid bosses in classic even without the mediocre HT.

They're always whining about their endurance.

Darkness is 20 mana for 1200 hate. Not easy to run OOM using that, and if you have a bard or a chanter with you, your bar never moves.

Warriors have garbage aggro generation in classic.

Warriors need to med for endurance just like knights do for mana.

The problem with warriors is that you need very specific weapons with very specific procs to hold aggro.

Casual warriors without great gear don't have easy access to those good aggro weapons. The weapons are either rare, or the augments (like LDON) require groups actually willing to help that warrior farm points.

Being able to hold aggro is a whole challenge onto itself for warriors, especially in classic where the choice of weapons and procs is incredibly limited. A casual warrior in classic will struggle a lot trying to hold aggro.

An SK could hold aggro while swinging a wooden stick around.

It is only starting with SoF, many expansions beyond classic, where warrior finally get good instant AA abilities that help them hold aggro, like Blast of Anger. Up until SoF, warriors are completely reliant on their weapons and its procs.

Best MAIN MOB tank on raids due to warrior's Defensive Ability and higher AC caps, they can mitigate high ATK mobs better than any other tank.

But you need your SK and Paladins just as much as your warriors, knights are much better offtanks, which becomes increasingly important later on where raids are no longer silly tank 'n spank raids you find in classic. Raids also involve much more AE the deeper you go into expansions, which is why paladin's cures and heals come in handy during raids.

Not really. For knights, they need to sit down and stop attacking to regain mana more quickly. Warriors are going to regen the same endurance in classic whether they are attacking or sitting down--they just need to stop using provoke for a bit.

This means 0 aggro on engage, and the procrate being so low in classic, means you simply lost aggro for the remainder of the fight.

And this scenario is almost inevitable, groups pull much faster than warriors are able to regain endurance. Warriors end up being able to use provoke for every 3rd mob, meaning 2 out of 3 mobs are not secured and you might as well not have a tank in the group.

The warrior doesn't want to slow down XP, so they don't tell the group to take a break and they tank with 0 endurance. So mobs continuously ping-pong between the warrior and everyone else.

It is simply demoralizing for warriors in classic, they simply lack the tools to do what they are supposed to do, hold the attention of the mob.

DBG already has extra weapon augments for melee on TLP, just add some aggro ones for warriors. Mini versions of enraging blow augs that actually have a decent procrate.

Was it necessary to necro a 2.5 year-old thread for this?

I don't think this thread is really being "necro'd", it's simply a general class discussion thread that stays relevant.

There's no reason to make a new thread every time someone wants to compare class power in classic.

Necroing is more like digging up an old thread about an event that is no longer relevant.

Necros are pretty "S tier" through Kunark imo. Assuming your creep around the undead dungeons and aren't afraid to charm. In most raids they are topping parses through Velious but at that point the charm group game falls off.

How would you rate classes from Classic to Retail? Which classes have the best ability to single box their way to the top?

There are a multiple of ways to regain mana back quicker compared to endurance early on. You don't need to be sitting to regain mana at a much more rapid rate than endurance.

By Luclin (maybe earlier), a buffed paladin's standing mana regen will already have surpassed than endurance regen and they still have things like Paragon and rods to leverage. A warrior has...nothing.

You missed the point of what I was responding to. As a warrior, I never need to med for endurance in the first ~10 expansions. In fact, "medding" for endurance doesn't do anything. Warriors don't gain any more endurance by stopping attacking and sitting down. The fastest (and only) way to gain endurance as a warrior is to just not use endurance draining abilities. This is true until out of combat regen kicks in.

Knights DO gain more mana by stopping attacking and sitting down, even if they often don't need to because of all the things you mentioned. If you don't have a beastlord in group, or an enchanter, or a bard, sometimes stopping and medding so the knight can get some mana back may be necessary. It is never necessary for a warrior.

Not exactly true, you lose endurance regen for moving and for having attack on. -10 per tick for attacking and -5 for moving. That said, you don't really drain endurance very much or fast in early expansions because back then it was designed around stamina and functioned differently.

The list should be done from the prospective of the person playing the character. Not how necessary they are for a complete raid IMO.

Overall I'd say its:

Enchanter: Charm, even when nerfed, is the most powerful thing you can do in the game atm. Even in zones where Druids or Necromancers can charm, they kind of need the tash debuff to do as well as Enchanters in this. On top of it, they have great buffs and debuffs.

Necromancer: Really well rounded class that does well at solo, group and raid content. Besides their pet and dots, Necromancers charm UD, ghetto mez, and FD. They are fun to play IMO because of how active they are compared to more simple classes.

Monk: Monk was always overpowered in Classic. They are tanky melee dps -- a very easy combo to navigate. To make it more fool-proof, they have FD. What puts them over-the-top on TLPs, is that their fist damage is overtuned. They basically don't need weapons once they have epic -- with bare hands they out dps Rogues. On top of that, they get all kinds of special items. While they don't use a lot of monk weapons (that have better ratios than anything) because their fists are better, they do use a lot of other ridicules overpowered gear in Velious. They drop off quite a bit after classic, because their tankyness is diminished and their damage isn't really better than Rogues or Rangers by then.

Bard: Pretty much the best buffer in the game, is also really good at CC. They are one of those classes that have a very high game knowledge cap. Expert Bards always impress people. They are the best pullers overall.

Cleric: Best Healer. That being said, I find this class put too high on the list. The reason Cleric + Enchanter or Cleric + Necromancer is so strong is because of the Enchanter or Necromancer in those groups, not the Cleric. You can do very similar things with Druid or Shaman. The main reason In don't put it lower on the list, is because of Res. Res make this particular healer always the number 1 in groups, even when other healers become capable of solo healing as well. It's also a great box class.

Mage: Mage is not that good at raid DPS, but they are good for raid utility (summonables and coth). Meanwhile they do the best non-charm DPS. If you just need some firepower for group content, mage is pretty much the go to -- and they aren't even gear dependent. They tend to win mob races when it comes to farming drops as well.

Ranger: Rangers are the best group tanks in Classic. While their DPS is mediocre, they can save a raid with their weapon shield at times. Track is a big deal, but somewhat mitigated by widespread ShowEQ use (sorry to interject reality here). They are actually a good solo and duo class compared to most others -- they can even out-preform monk in some situations.

Druid: Underrated eternally. Charm puts this class at top of group dps most the time. The problem is you can't always charm. Without charm the class is just not very good at DPS. Reguardless, Druid healing is not bad on TLPs like it was when this content was first experienced. With gear, they can mainheal without trouble. Naked, they usually need a little backup on the path to 50. Druids are always welcome in raids. Guilds are always looking for more because they are useful in many different ways.

Paladin: Because of power creep -- Rangers are pretty much better group tanks overall. Paladin is still enshrined as a great group tank though -- still has good aggro. Their spell utility keeps them in demand for raids Especially if the Paladin bothers to farm Soulfires.

Shaman: I don't get it. People have talked themselves into thinking this is a great classic class -- I disagree. They can't DPS because of aggro issues (too bad, it could be good). They are the worst at healing out of all the healing priest classes. They are needed for buffs and debuffs in raid, but it doesn't seem like a very satisfying job to me. They are not good at solo grinding, but can solo difficult mobs. They are a much better class starting in Planes of Power IMO.

Shadowknight: Another good tank in a game now filled with good tanks. They have a good amount of damage for a tank-based class. SK can aggro multiple mobs with long-term aggro very quickly. They also have some interesting utility with CoS, FD and other spells. They can pull, but so what? Time consuming split pulls are mostly avoided in groups these days. They don't particularly stand out as a raid class IMO.

Warrior: Ironically the best raid tank is the worst group tank. Warriors do one thing well: tank raids. They suck at everything else.

Rogue: They are the worst in Original EQ. But by Kunark they graduate into good group dps and great raid DPS. Essentially you are trying to catch up to monk dps with gear -- because top geared Rogues will about match top geared Monks. You can also pick locks. Otherwise, you are completely outshinned by monk.

Wizard: Similar to Warrior but without the assurance you will do your one job (raid dps) well. Wizards tend to be outperformed by things like Enchanter pets, Necromancers, and melee dps. Their sustain is not ideal for high functioning groups -- and they sit LFG probably longer than Druids.