Min/Maxing Classes Questions!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Rygaru, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. Rygaru New Member

    So I figured this was a good area to post this, as I am not a veteran of EQ but you all here are, I'm relatively new to EQ, I get conflicting answers all the time but my questions are this, I have a few classes I'm interested in, Dk/Bst/Mnk/Zerker and Cleric, I am trying to min max, everyone I ask has a few different answers, I've seen threads and gotten responses that hstam is good as a first stat to "keep you alive" in endgame situations, but I've also seen replies of that "You shouldn't need hstam if you're a good player and you get more dps output from having your main stat as your primary".

    With that being said, I've seen this said to be the following order of importance

    Cleric only needs HP and HSta and Heal Power
    Melee DPS = HDex > HStr > HAgi
    if you're tanking its HDex > HSta > HAgi

    Of course everyone will have a different opinion, I've asked a few endgame guilds on my CT server and they've all been different, what is everyone elses opinions and why? I'm generally with most of the people as I have been endgame in 7 different mmo's at high level that you shouldn't need HP as a main stat as a primary #1, like in WoW, if I would of enchanted my gear with stamina or hp enchants I'd of really lost out on a lot of dps over the course of a 9 min long fight.

    I also saw a thread where someone was using all hdex gear but was using the tank power source (I'm new so I have no idea what that power source is, but if its only 1 item it doesn't sound like a huge dps loss). I'm open to all suggestions, I just want my class to be where it should be and where the top players play it at, if I die that just means I need to get better at my class and that I shouldn't blanket it with hstam, but if hstam is something every top guild uses I'll consider it. I Just got my toon 115 the other day so I'm still learning.

    Again for reference, Dk/Bst/Mnk/Zerker and Cleric are the toons I'm interested in learning about min maxing, I plan on doing the endgame raids to the best of my ability, and all depending on what guilds I can actually get into that have a spot for any of those classes.
  2. Tucoh Augur

    I wish i could play a deathknight in EQ. Just start deathcoiling these norrathian mobs all day.

    I use hdex on melee and hsta on casters. Hdex increases tank survivability and dps. For min maxing in raids i bet top players stack hsta because boss swings don't care about the bonuses the hdex gives you.

    For most casters, mana isn't a huge issue and mana pool is less important than regen, so hsta is more useful. While leveling hint or hwis can win because you haven't stacked all the AAs and items and everything that helps you regen mana. Clerics are so mana efficient these days that it's easy to turn into a healing fire hydrant with no end even while stacking hsta.

    Note that the difference between stacking hsta, hdex, balancing them etc is pretty minimal. You see so many conflicting messages because it doesn't matter but is one of the few choices people make with gear. Your box team's party makeup is way more important

    For some unsolicited advice, your group would benefit from a shaman and/or a bard. You can read more about how i run my melee group here https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/tucos-setup-critique-welcome.240258/
    Andarriel likes this.
  3. Strawberry Augur

    Only in la-la-land can you focus solely on DPS. Everyone gets hit, and you don't do any DPS when you're dead. DPS that get killed on raids are so much worse than players who do less DPS but stay alive. Your primary objective is staying alive instead of topping the DPS chart and getting killed in the first few minutes on every other raid.

    You can work with a player who stays alive and help that player tweak DPS, that player is an asset to the raid, they have good judgement and environmental awareness. You can't work with an idiot who keeps getting killed, doesn't know when to back off, and is more of a drag on the guild than a benefit. Never have I cared how much DPS a recruit did, as long as he pays attention and stays alive, DPS can always be tweaked.
    minimind and Elyssanda like this.
  4. Chaosflux Augur

    Clerics don't really care about heal amount in a "i am going to concentrate my aug choices around this stat" sense because its not that big of a gain, I'd prioritize AC/Hsta/Hp and let heal amount land where it lands if I were boxing a cleric in that type of group.

    I don't think I'd purposely equip an aug without AC on a cleric, especially in a boxing environment where stuff can happen like tank death or whatever, where you might need to tank a mob or three with your cleric while you get a rez off or whatever.
  5. Malpheroth Elder

    Heroic agility on a dps is negligible without destroying your damage. I switched 400 hdex for 800 hagi and saw my ac go up 0 and my avoidance 100. The dps loss was noticeable but the survivability gain was not as I could still not solo a tier 1 mob from the previous expansion without using “cooldowns.” Tanks, on the other hand actually benefit tremendously with heroic agility, especially while undergeared and without AAs and especially if you have others in your group providing dps. Unfortunately, as you seem to know, hagi is the worst tanking stat against any meaningful combat like against rares or in group missions or raids because a great deal of the damage strikes through avoidance or is spell damage. Fully geared tanks can afford to use damage augs because through raid gear, trophies, quest progression, AAs, and items like the artisan’s prize or tbl evolving gear they can afford to do so and still have 30% more hp than a group-geared player. Int/wis vs stam on a caster depends on the class. My enchanter never runs out of mana but if I didn’t use wisdom augs on my shaman he would run out in 5 mobs since the dots cost 20k mana each.

    Edit: it is worth mentioning that I unconventionally use intelligence augs on my enchanter because in conjunction with the spell damage mitigating runes that are reapplied mid-combat the spell shielding benefit of intelligence provide what I consider to be greater survivability than stamina even though the extra mana is almost never needed.
  6. menown Augur

    Scenarios help people understand choices better. For example, say you have a choice between 400 heroic intelligence or 400 heroic stamina. Every 400 heroic intelligence bumps you up 1 tier (1%) of spell/DoT shielding. That 1% can scale up with the amount of damage taken. Current Live content raids hit at a max about 300k DD and a bit less per DoT ticks. 1% of that is about 3k HP saved. On the other hand, casters gain about 15 HP per heroic stamina. 15 x 400 = 6,000 hp.

    There will be a time when spell mitigation, through heroic int/wis, will surpass the benefits of additional HP from heroic stamina, but we are not at that point yet. Everyone is allowed their own freedom of choice, however. Maybe someone's playstyle is that they receive way more Spell and DoT damage than a healer can top off their HP bar.
  7. Tucoh Augur

    I've never thought about it but i could definitely see 1% spell shielding compete with 6k hp.
    minimind likes this.