Wizzard rebalance required!

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by NeoSpring, Jun 29, 2021.

  1. Mithra Augur

    Well played wizard with proper support is winning almost every single fight in Kunark not sure what the problem is.
    Skuz likes this.
  2. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Probably forgot to swap out Ice Comet on Vox.
  3. Kahna Augur


    I am the Wizard this go around, and I was getting roughly 40-50% resists on dragons, even with debuffing. Necro got maybe 10% resists on everything but the fire dragons. Now we aren't doing a ton of raiding this go around, because we don't need to, so my sample size is smaller with the wizard than it was with the necro.

    Necro's have the potential to be much better DPS than wizards in the early game, but most people are horrible at playing them.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Wizards are a "highly dependent" DPS class.
    They rely on everyone else doing what they should be doing before their own playing skill really starts to make a difference.
    Debuffs are the big ticket, Wizards rely on the debuffers getting the mob's resists as low as possible so up their chances of landing spells.
    And concussion does reduce aggro on a resist so you should be casting it regularly & ignore any resists for that spell as they are meaningless.
  5. jiri_ Augur

    40% resisted Conflagration should still be more damage per second than 0% resisted Drain Soul.
  6. Kahna Augur

    It is not, not when you stack the fire dots and cast the taps while the dots tick down. Not on a fast fight where you can burn through all your mana and be fine on aggro because you can FD. Necros in classic just have more potential.
  7. tzeriel Lorekeeper

    Necros also require little to no help to do their DPS. Wizards need proper resist gear, a bard, a great tank just to THINK about taking a parse. Monks on the other hand? Resist gear(maybe) and just auto afk. You’ll be right in the top.

    Wizards have one of if not the highest potential ceilings for DPS but also one of the more brutal floors.
  8. Vanyana New Member

    So what you are saying is that have played a Wizard through many expansions and do not know how to rain around cc mobs, how concussion works, or how to control aggro? There is no reason you should not be top 10 on any of the expansions listed for 90% of the raid mobs.
  9. jiri_ Augur

    I'm still confused about your resist situation with wizards. Conflagration is more total damage than Ignite Blood, the best of the classic-era fire dots. I'm surprised you're getting so many resists that only spells with a -100 or better check are viable. That hasn't been my experience at all.
  10. Vicus Augur

    Wizard Classic-Luclin will beat any class (raids) except on fights like Tunare/PoS where the resist are skewed to prevent casters to shine. PoP changes the tide a bit until clicky pants and LDON augs.

    In groups wizards will never be as good as an equally geared mage for sustained constant dps. But blowing up a named in a hurry wizard still shines.

    On raids it takes a team to be #1 and when the team is working correctly a wizard is 10-20% ahead during the early expansions. You need a manapool, you need a warrior/tank who is maximizing threat, you need a tank who is holding taunt for when you get aggro and paying attention, you need the chanters de aggro buff (10%). Also remember you won't be able to win unless you are using rains and sitting in between cast, maximizing regen with concentration pots.

    Playing a wizard is basically ensuring you maximize your manapool...and only pulling aggro right at the last 1-2%. If you are getting summon at 1-2% then you have basically performed as best as you can. If you aren't getting summoned then you could of nuked harder, if you die any time before then for overaggroed then you got to aggressive and wasted DPS.
  11. Kahna Augur


    It isn't just about resists (and RNG is RNG, sometimes you get more resists than others). Aggro management is also huge. Wizards in classic are 100% dependent on the tank knowing how to do their job. Even then they can't 100% open up right away, and necro doesn't care how good the tank is at doing their job, they can start dumping mana into DPS right away. I haven't sat down and crunched all the numbers, but I can tell you that I have played with good wizards, wizards who beat me in DPS handily in later expansions, and they couldn't come close to beating me in classic.

    Most necros are horrible at playing their class in classic raids. It is easy for me to believe that you have never played with a necro who knew how to maximize their DPS.
  12. Kobra Augur

    I keep hearing how bad necros are in classic, kunark, velious, luclin, and PoP. I have heard necros are bad in every expansion, but yet I have never had issues topping the parse. In PoP which is the worst I have experienced I still hit top 3 regularly. The mobs just die too quick and Rangers who know how to gear their class are the only class I cannot beat.

    If you want to talk broken, how about fixing bow aggro, I don't think it generates any.
  13. Boogatti Lorekeeper

    Imagine losing to a Ranger.
  14. jiri_ Augur

    What's weird about that? A well-geared ranger in PoP should be pretty well destroying most everyone.
  15. Blastoff Augur

    Soooo either 1. you suck and don't know how to rain in bellycaster range or 2. your bards suck and don't know how to use the strongest debuff in the game or 3. you're using conflag on a mob you could be using rains on...OTHERWISE you're winning every parse from classic-luclin that rains land on and don't suck. Wizard is top, anyone who says otherwise is new to the game or can't do the basic math behind wizard rains being 30-40% more mana efficient than anything a necro has. Also...https://www.graffes.com/forums/showthread.php?8643-The-Truth-about-concussion-(and-other-aggro).
  16. Lejaun Augur

    Who says necros are bad?
  17. Atabishix New Member

    As far as raids go, Wizards are top DPS on almost all encounters classic-velious and no other class is even on the same planet. Necros catch up to them in Luclin after focus effects and Monks/Rogues/Rangers do as well once they get their atk gear and weapons. They are still one of the top DPS classes in Luclin though. PoP-GoD they are still very good dps but so is all the other dps classes. Omens they obviously suck and after that they are still great but that's probably when they could start using some help.

    There really is no excuse if you're in a guild that has wizards and they aren't blowing everyone out on almost all raid targets classic-velious. It's literally not even close. Luclin-GoD it gets more competitive but they should still be up there. The only fights I can think of off the top of my head classic-velious that they can't blow everyone out in is sky bosses, yael, phara dar, venril sathir, tunare and sleepers tomb dragons. Believe it or not wizards actually got their early era dmg nerfed on the TLP's sometime right before Aradune. Their sword pets used to be able to be buffed and did unmitigated dmg and neither are the case anymore. Despite that nerf they still destroy though.

    The problem raid guilds have with wizards is two fold though. One being that it takes a little more skill to DPS on a wizard than it does a monk in early eras. A terrible monk will still do dmg on raids but a terrible wizard will do no dmg. The other problem is that guilds don't know how to facilitate a wizards damage. A guild has to use all the resist debuffs and also give all the wizards a bard. A lot of guilds just don't debuff mobs and you'll be hard pressed to find guilds who will put the bards with the wizards instead of the monks/rogues in the early era's. Guilds still have that melee need to be with the bards mindset but I guarantee you that on many raid bosses that ae in classic-velious a wizard who doesn't have to dodge vs one that does will have a much higher % dmg difference than a melee who doesn't have to dodge vs one that does.

    There's a reason TEB literally had between 30-40 active wizard mains classic-velious.

    As far as wizards in groups, yeah their dps sucks compared to other classes. But why are you even having them only DPS in groups? They are insane pullers and that should be their primary job in an exp grp imo. The monk is better suited just staying in camp doing dps if you have a wizard in your grp. I was always the main puller on my wizard in my static groups and that's how I was best able to contribute.
  18. Kahna Augur

    I don't use single target nukes, I do indeed know how to rain on belly casters. I can still do more dmg on an equally geared necro. Mana efficiency DOESN'T MATTER when the mob dies super fast. Vox only living the duration of 4-5 fire dot rounds means you can be as mana inefficient as you want and still only run out of mana just as the mob dies.

    Lava storm does 1203 dmg and can only be cast every 17 seconds (it does less on MOTM mobs, but everything is mitigated equally so the ratios are the same.) Lifetap does 406 dmg every 4.7 seconds. A necro can lifetap 3.6 times for every rain the wizard does. Let's say it's just 3 times for simplicity. They can do 1218 dmg in that same 17 seconds. They also have fire dots ticking down doing 1410 dmg every 36 seconds. Sure, the wizard can weave in conflag while waiting on the rain cooldown but the necro also doesn't have to worry about aggro AND the necro has a pet damaging as well.

    Finishing a Vox fight with 50% mana has zero benefit. Well, except that if you are a wizard you have to port the raid to the next target, I suppose.
  19. Atabishix New Member


    Your math is off by a lot. For one, if you're saying your vox fights took long enough for you to do 4-5 DoT rounds, thats a 3-4 minute fight. A necro isn't keeping DoT's up + spam life tapping for 3-4 minutes straight. You don't have the mana for it. 1 round of fire dots + 4 life taps is nearly 1500 mana.

    The re cast time of lava storm btw is 12 seconds not 17. The normal wizard rotation for vox is Rain > Conflag > Conflag > repeat. So every 19.5 seconds a wizard is hitting vox for 240 + 540 + 240 + 540 + 240. Total of 1800 dmg at 5400 dmg a minute. The thing is, a wizard can do this the entire fight non-stop without running oom.

    The dmg per tick for necro dots on vox are: 26 Heat Blood. 41 Boil Blood. 75 Ignite Blood. Drain soul hits for 240. Lets say you had infinite mana and kept dots up + spammed life taps, what would it look like. If you were to use all 3 fire dots starting with ignite blood and then spam life tap, your first rotation would take 18.2 seconds for a total of 573 dmg. If you didn't use Heat Blood, which in this infinite mana scenario it wouldn't be worth it, you could do a total of 787 dmg in 18.4 seconds for your first rotation. So already you are 1013 dmg behind the wizard. For sake of easy math we'll assume both the fire dots last 42 seconds like ignite blood. You can now spam life taps for the next 37.5 seconds before you need to reapply which is about 8 life taps for a total of 1920 dmg. Your dot's will have given you a total of 812 dmg. Necro pets average about 400 dmg a minute on vox. You've done a grand total of 3919 dmg in 1 minute compared to 5400 dmg a minute from a wizard. It cost you a grand total of 3188 mana vs 2250 for a wizard.

    Now we all know a necro can't spam life tap on vox for the entire fight if it lasts longer than a minute, you literally don't have the mana for it. But even with infinite mana a necro will not come close to out dps'ing a wizard. Also aggro isn't an issue in classic, you use SK's to tank always so wizards can literally spam.

    I'd ask you to show in era vox parses of your necro as I have nearly 100 vox parses from TEB, but I already know what the result of that would be.
  20. Ishbu Augur

    All this debate over who the best dps classes are makes it glaringly obvious mage must need some big upgrades since evidently they cant compete with wizards at all in any of the earlier eras