Specialize Evocation aug still worth it?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Metanis, Jun 30, 2021.

  1. Metanis Bad Company

    I take care of my wife's augs. (She's a raiding 115 Enchantress, Inverse Logic, Luclin).

    Looking over all her augs after making all the raid bricks, and I see she has an old Splinter of Potency bagged. Splinter of Potency :: Items :: EverQuest :: ZAM (allakhazam.com)


    That got me searching and I can't find a recent answer, is the 2% mana return worth it for a raiding enchanter?

    If I equipped this Specialize Aug it would be replacing the Shard of Revitalizing Power which is her weakest type 7/8 at this time. Shard of Revitalizing Power :: Items :: EverQuest :: ZAM (allakhazam.com)
  2. Cicelee Augur

    On a raid, I would say it is not worth it. The events with no mana drain you will not run OOM. On the events with a mana drain, I suppose there is a philosophy that the specialization augments could prevent you from going OOM, however I think you are going OOM with or without it.

    They shine in the group game, where the mana return delays how long it will be before you go OOM. Now if you find that you take them out and never go OOM, then either (a) you no longer need the spec augments, or (b) you need to pull more mobs and do more.

    As a magician, I still roll with the evocation and conjuration augs as well as the Shawl augment.
  3. kizant Augur

    Mages may have infinite mana but everyone else should probably use them.
    Tenafter, Metanis, Tour and 1 other person like this.
  4. Szilent Augur

    Answer is Probably Yes. 2.5%, btw.

    Of even greater value is Tome of Manipulation for the same 2.5% mana preservation on Mind Coil & Pulmonary Grip dots.
  5. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    I think you need to look at it in reverse. On a raid, one more type 7 stat aug isn't going to send any caster to some magical level ... it's all incremental stuff (and very incremental at this point). But the mana savings that you get from the spec augs cannot be duplicated. It's the same line of reasoning for keeping the Shawl aug.

    Personally, I use the evo one on my wizard because I do run low on mana on some of the longer events. And it helps when I'm recovering from death and my mana recovery abilities are down.

    It's the problem with heroic stats and casters. We don't have some magical plateau we're trying to get to by stacking any one stat like melee get.


    Back to the OP ... does she ever run out of mana (or close to) - raid or group? If so, the splinter is a no brainer IMO. If never has a mana issue, then it just doesn't matter. And looking at acquiring the alteration spec aug as suggested above is good as well.
    RPoo, Metanis, Skuz and 1 other person like this.
  6. Cicelee Augur

    All casters have infinite mana in the group game. And magicians have the same mana issues as the other casters do on raids.

    Unless Sancus and PMJ are summoning wolves during raid encounters. But that is generally an after rez thing, not a during a raid thing...
  7. kizant Augur

    I don't know why you think this but it's not even sorta true.
    Beimeith likes this.
  8. Cicelee Augur

    What part isn't sorta true? This will be fun.
  9. kizant Augur

    What do you think? All the other casters will run out of mana in groups and raids way before mages. Dropping specialization augs and mana pres potions, etc isn't an option for anyone else.
  10. Chaosflux Augur

    Necros/Wizards/Enchanters/Druids can all burn mana like crazy in the group game, with very little in the way to return, even my mage just burns through mana like crazy, spec augs keep me burning longer, and summoning wolves less. The other classes can't do that. This throttles their dps tremendously.

    The only way casters don't spend enough mana to make spec augs worth it, is if they just don't cast much to begin with, Especially in the group game where you might kill for an hour or two straight or more without a break, that 2.5% adds up really fast.
    kizant and Tatanka like this.
  11. CrazyLarth Augur

    Raid yes and group it depends on your play style.
    RPoo likes this.
  12. Cicelee Augur

    My sincerest apologies. I was under the impression that all casters had access to OOC regen in the group game. Apparently that is only a magician skill. Forgive my ignorance.

    And I still want to know if Sancus and PMJ and the other ROI magicians are summoning wolves during an event and not after a rez...
  13. Cicelee Augur

    I have to be honest, it has been a very long time when I have been in a non stop chain pulling group for over two hours with no breaks. I would like to know how much longer it takes for a group player to go from 0 to 100 via OOC regen than it takes a magician summoning wolves.

    I generally only summon wolves on raids after I die at the end of an event. I am the type of magician that usually has a pocketed pet ready to go in case the main pet dies, which negates the ability to summon wolves since I have a main pet and a pocketed one too.
  14. Chaosflux Augur

    I play on a TLP so this affects my opinion and playstyle substantially, I don't really have the option of playing casually. Generally grind for 3 to 6 hours everyday whether its speedrunning through quests or just raw XP grinding.

    It takes 3 minutes for a character to get to full from OOC, it takes my magician 24s to get to full if I hit 8%, depending on where mod rod/elemental conversion recast timer is I won't have to actually sacrifice to full, but I can suspend, pop a wolf, reclaim between pulls, usually without losing to much overall DPS. This allows me to push my combined dps alot harder for alot longer. Alot of times we are pulling very large trash packs too, so I can beam, which has the side benefit of being very very mana efficient.

    My necro on the other hand basically burns hard to 15% and then my dps is massively throttled if deathbloom and blood magic are down, i don't play a wizard, but id imagine they are in the same boat, the druid that sometimes groups with me can burn through her mana bar incredibly quickly, especially if she's healing and dpsing. My enchanter same deal, with only one good big mana return on a long recast timer.

    Looking at the upcoming expansions and comparing mana costs and aa upgrades, I don't see any reason this would change between where I am and live.
    kizant likes this.
  15. kizant Augur

    Even on live nobody wants to rely on ooc region. A good group is going to have a constant stream of mobs for a long time. There's a reason nobody else is trying to defend this silly opinion.
    Romance, Behelit, Tour and 1 other person like this.
  16. Chaosflux Augur

    Wait for ooc, ain't nobody got time for that
    kizant likes this.
  17. Zalamyr Augur

    Just to elaborate a bit, mana preservation effects are deceptively powerful and more impactful than what is intuitive for most people. As your mana spend rate vs mana return rate approach the same number, your theoretical time to oom approaches infinity, meaning the gains are not linear. They become more impactful the closer those numbers become.

    Just to use round, made up numbers, let's say you have 300,000 mana, you use 50,000 mana per minute, while regaining 30,000 mana per minute (through both passive and active effects), for a net loss of 20,000 mana per minute. You would go oom in 15 minutes. Let's say you gain 5% in mana preservation effects. Intuitively, most people would think you'd last an extra 5% longer, or 45 seconds, but that's not the correct math. Instead, you have to reduce your mana used per minute by 5%, so now it's 47,500. Giving you a new net loss per minute of 17,500. This now means you'll gain an extra 128 seconds before going oom, nearly triple the "intuitive" number.

    So TLDR: Yeah, use the spec augs.
    Skuz, Szilent, kizant and 1 other person like this.
  18. Chaosflux Augur

    Zalamyr on point.

    Its like compound interest, even if you don't understand it, when it works in your favor, you want it.
  19. Tucoh Augur

    A key factor is that there isn't much competition for the aug slot. Even with BiS augs the contribution from your 18th or whatever best type7 is very unlikely to save your life, but the reduced mana cost starts to really help in mana deprived situations which are often the most important fights.
    Metanis likes this.
  20. Eaedyilye More stonehive bixies.

    I was curious about this. so I went to my combat dummy to check it out.

    I used the spell line up chaos, RS, spear, spear for the test. I mashed 1 button to cycle through the spells and nothing else. I chain nuked until GINA screeched I was out of mana. I mana pool is 344278.

    First test, spell damage preferred augs in all slots. The numbers. Time 1058 seconds. Damage 334994909. DPS 316630. 322 casts.

    Second test. I removed a 300 mana 60 spell damage aug and replaced it with the Splinter of Potency.
    Time 1227. Damage 394402139. DPS 321436. 373 cast.

    Third test. I took out another aug with 60 spell damage and replaced it with the Bixie Summoning Stone. So now we have 120 less spell damage.

    Time 1298. Damage 407828428. DPS 313890. Casts 394.

    Well, you will preserve mana using the mana preservation stones according to this test. Using the Splinter of Potency made a big difference. Adding the Bixie Summoning Stone also made a nice difference. But I did lose a little DPS by adding that, but I had a lot more total damage and number of casts before I went out of mana.

    I'm going to leave the augs in tonight and see how they work in the field.