Phasing Out the Epics

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Gnomereaper, Jun 22, 2021.

  1. Gnomereaper Augur

    In Everquest 2, epic abilities are moved from the weapons to the AA system.

    Should Epic abilities be moved to the AA system?

    Or should new abilities be created that phase out epics on the same timer?
  2. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    I'd like to see all epics be made usable at current levels.

    I took a lot of breaks over the years, so didn't play much when the 2.0 epics were current. When I came back, I found the Druid epic had a focus phase-out built in, so that by level 95, it had no effect at all. So, never bothered doing the quest(s). But I see several classes still use theirs with some regularity, and as far as I know, no other class has an epic which is completely useless at current levels. Before they change how they work, etc, let's make them all worth using.
    Nennius likes this.
  3. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    I agree! They should remove the spell level degradation from the epic focus effects.
    Nennius likes this.
  4. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Perhaps. I looked at some of the other epic 2.0s again last night. All of the foci had level phase-outs, so that they became useless by level 95. So that's fair, across the board. However, epics also have clickies, and for the Druid click, that effect ALSO has a level phase-out, so it also is useless past level 95. The others I checked, the clickies had no level phase-out, so they were still useful at current levels.
  5. Loratex The Ridiculous Necro

    I support you 100 percent! To be fair most of them epic clicks are useless now too.
    Sk, zerker, cleric and shaman might be the only VIABLE ones. The necro pet click is just another spam pet with life leech.
  6. Hekaton Augur

    shaman epic is still very viable
    minimind likes this.
  7. Accipiter Old Timer

    And bard.
    Celephane and minimind like this.
  8. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    See, that's what I mean, 5 classes with very useful epics, even at 115, and, as far as I have seen, all the others are at least usable, if not very useful, for all classes but druid.

    Fix this, and give me a reason to get my 2.0! :)
  9. Accipiter Old Timer

    What are the 2.0s that faded out the quickest? Mage? Rogue, for sure.
  10. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    OK, I went and verified, just to make sure: https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:Epics

    Of the 2.0s, Druid is the ONLY one where the clicky has a level phase-out, so it's unusable post 95.

    And what does it do? It lets the next 20 nukes gain 1% more damage. Hardly imbalancing.
  11. Tappin Augur

    What a dumb idea... This game has always been about "inches," and that is what makes it fun. Stop requesting nerfs for bad content design (cough necro epic 2). Everyone should have gotten a click that was usable throughout EQ's like span.
    Mims likes this.
  12. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    Wizards epic is the most useless should of been a innate crit rate increase on spells or something. Only thing is it looks cool. They could raise the level limit and it still be useless. Epics need to fade off eq been like what 15yrs cant keep living in the past people!

    Andarriel
    Yinla likes this.
  13. Tappin Augur

    It’s not living in the past. There’s other items that people use since forever (CoA BP for example). Collecting clickies and such is what makes the game fun. It’s not the players fault for poorly designed content.
  14. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Wizzys is nearly useless when it comes out
  15. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    Are you serious? Have you not heard the moaning and groaning from players in the middle of their epic who are posting because the needed zones morphed into Hardcore Heritige for the next month?

    That alone should be evidence there are still players doing epics. They are not useless. Just because a majority of players have their nose shoved up their level 115 rear ends does not mean the rest of the server is at those levels also.

    And you wonder why new players don't stick around? Sheesh the epics are almost solo able so that should encourage new players to do them and give them the feeling of accomplishment most of us got doing ours.

    Removing epics from the game serves no purpose, they are not hurting anything, the only waste of space was this debate.
    Bardy McFly and Celephane like this.
  16. Gnomereaper Augur

    The game design philosophy behind the epics was to have them become obsolete over time, and therefore become memento and relics and achievement type items for higher levels. Total, absolute removal would be absolutely stupid for the development time placed in and the popularity of the epics themselves.

    Looking at Everquest 2's design philosophy of the epics, they have generated a system where you no longer need your epic in your bag and instead the right click effect is now in the AA system after you complete the epic quest series. Everquest 2 has followed a different design philosophy than Everquest for their epic system. Rather than planned obsolescence, Everquest 2's design philosophy was to embrace the nature of epics as a natural part of the class system that in part helped define the class.

    Furthermore, we could also look at the problem with Epic 3.0 and ask for better development tools that make it so that we could have more epic quests or new similar quests like the Rallos Zek earring minus the tradeskills part. Epic 3.0 mainly haven't been done because of time problems, if anything the addition of the epic ornament quests have shown that the developers understand the role and importance of the epic system.

    It's just that the different design philosophies for EQ 2 and EQ are different, as EQ 2 the epics are still useful while in EQ it's a bit more random. Streamlining that to build on the system or to have a point where an AA ability can do what the Epic does and phase out an epic as a part of planned obsolescence doesn't remove the quest from the game. It just removes the need for the item itself for the player to use the item, but still leaves the item in the house or bank, still having achievements, the title, and the ornaments.

    Just because a person bought a new Ford Mustang doesn't mean they're going to sell their Ford Model T.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  17. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    You are confusing epic 1.0s with epic 2.0s (for the HH zone issue).

    And I was no where near 115 when I realized there was no point to doing my epic 2.0, because the clicky was phased out. There's nothing wrong with asking for it to be addressed, since it's the ONLY ONE with this restriction.
  18. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    I am not confusing anything. This topic did not specify which epic. My comment is on the over all usefulness of epics.
  19. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    While I agree with your post for the most part (but I admit I glazed over the EQ 2 stuff since it is of no interest) , this section causes me to wonder why they brought in the Epic Retelling if the original epics were to be the mementos. To me the epic retelling is the memento

    And where would that go if they removed epics from the game? There would be nothing to retell.
    Mims likes this.
  20. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    Even if you make them AA's that would just free up a single item slot and add another AA which they have appeared to want to reduce in the past. In the end would saving a single bag slot for some classes really gain anyone much of anything? In the end you have some epics that will be valuable no matter how many times the level cap is increased and some that are just taking up bag space somewhere.
    Yinla likes this.