A radical idea

This is the most perplexing thing to me.

You see dozens of posts trying to change up classic through POP. They want it done faster and faster, new rules, etc. If they love the content so much, why do you want to churn through it faster? Just so you do it again 6-12 months later on another server? Doesn't make any sense. It's quite evident TLPmillers are bored with it now after doing the same thing 4+ years in a row. Their refusal to push past it is mind boggling. They claim the content isn't good, but ofttimes have not even done the content they claim they hate so much.

I think at this point it's just people are just stuck in their comfort zone in expansions where you don't really need to do much in order to steamroll it. Classic through POP requires minimal button presses, minimal reaction times, minimal gear, minimal AAs, etc to accomplish everything. They want to somehow live vicariously through the old days, with their major power increases, and steamroll content while required to not really do much other than press a couple buttons.

Nobody can convice me doing the monotonous standard classic grind of Noob zone --> CB/BB --> UR/NRo --> SolA/UG --> SolB/LG --> Hole grind is fun every year for multiple years. I've done one classic TLP and I've come to the conclusion that I would rather do POR for a year straight than doing that boring trash again. Even the streamers look bored out of their mind doing that content now, blankly staring at their screens doing nothing while watching auto attack. It would be hilarious to watch if I didn't want to immediately fall asleep watching it.

And don't get me started with some of the "talent" levels I see on some of these streams. I watched some mage in one of the "high end" mischief guilds, target a mob, start casting on said mob, mob gets mezzed 1 second into cast as MA is on another mob, mage continues casting spell (which was like 4+ seconds still since every spell takes 8 lightyears to cast in classic), break mezz, enc dies, mage apologizes that MA swapped... bruh, you had 5 f***ing seconds to duck out of the spell cast after seeing it got mezzed before it went off! You need 5 seconds to react to a single cast?! What in the hell would this player do on any somewhat advanced mechanics in raids with multiple things occurring at once?! They would shart themselves and get immediately benched.

I suspect you encapsulated it nicely with this line.

TLP Recyclers are the epitome of Comfort Zone players, anything outside of the comfort zone must "suck", if you ask them "why?" the answer will almost always be "because it does" they usually cannot formulate a considered answer, and most of the answers beyond that are illogical nonsense such as "the numbers are too big" that are just paper-thin excuses that don't hold up.

Every once in a while you might get a grain of truth mentioned such as "the game is too hard for me later on" but that's a rare admission, and even that is easily countered with give yourself enough time and you can learn anything if you try.

Ultimately trying to rationalise it is not worth the effort some folks like what they like, and what they really want is just more of the same content they like, another continent with a set of classic-style 1-50 zones, another Kunark style expansion for 50-60, another Velious style expansion, another Luclin style expansion more planes of power at level 60-65, all they really want is the same exact s**t with a new lick of paint on it so it looks different. no advances, no evolution, no additional challenge, no fancy shmancy raid mechanics just give us more of the brainless tank 'n spank raids we enjoy in those expansions but with new zones, new mobs, new bosses, new gear, new quests, but they all should be just like the stuff that already exists before PoP. And they'd happily take away an expansion for live players to get it which is incredibly selfish & short-sighted.

I dunno, maybe one day DarkPaw will decide to capitulate, I hope they don't ever sacrifice a live expansion or even one zone of a new expansion to do that though. If they ever do it should only be because they have enough resources to do it on top of what they planned for live.

Normally everybody would be entitled to their opinion, but then you said something positive about new Freeport. Opinion invalidated, please try again. Nobody likes the new Freeport, nobody. Commonlands? Cool. Desert of Ro? Cool. All the others? Sure. Freeport? That's grounds for being committed to an institution. Then you said the game sucks after PoP, which is basically code for "I never played past GoD, or maybe OoW."

I'm a Live player, who in 2017 and 2021 was/is also a TLP player. I also play on Test, and pay for subs, and buy expansions. You can't put players in a box, some will fit, and others they just don't make boxes in that shape.

hehe

To be fair, the gameplay does change quite significantly, too - it's not just big numbers. I like aspects of the post 70 gameplay - ABC (Always Be Casting) is a much more modern style of gaming than ABM (Always Be Meditating).

But I can only play it in short bursts - then I need a sit down.

Whereas old school EQ gameplay is a much better time-killer.

And still plenty challenging if you avoid the aforementioned grind train to cap (which is really only challenging for the puller, and then not much once you've done a few spawn rotations).

For the raiding side of things, not my monkey, not my circus - not raided since 2002 (original Luclin era).

I thought the same thing when I started watching Live streams/videos. It's scary how lifeless some of them look.

I was expecting after 22 years the gameplay to have advanced in some way, for raids to become more dynamic or involved. But all they've really done is implement the modern MMO mindless button mashing.

It's barely changed at all. It's still a group of players mostly just standing there. The most exciting thing I saw was when the boss had an aura that people had to move out of. I thought to myself, wow, that raid boss from EQ's 27th expansion just did a thing that regular open world solo mobs do in modern MMOs.

But that's just it, EQ doesn't have to change for these 2 reasons:

1. This, except that all EQ players are comfort zone players, both TLP and Live. Many of them are not interested in MMOs or even games period outside of EQ. Most are just interested in different eras of the game, it's still a comfort zone.
2. EQ has never been an exciting or difficult game. And that's because people don't need it to be. People play EQ for the social aspect. Live players play because they've been playing with the same people for years, possibly decades. It doesn't matter to them how bad or buggy the expansions are. That is the epitome of comfort zone. TLP players play because they like seeing lots of players online and in LFG. They like to form/join random groups and meet new people. They like starting over from scratch - rags to riches gameplay. There is also nostalgia, which is a big comfort zone thing.

I don't believe that Live cannot live with no expansion for 1 year. However, I think it's odd to call that selfish, considering that nearly all of the money that comes from TLP has been going towards Live. If Live were to shut down, TLP would still exist, but if TLP were to shut down, Live would most assuredly hit maintenance mode. So I think it's OK for TLP players to expect that some of the money they spend be spent on their own experience. I don't necessarily think it has to be things that the OP are asking for. In that case, I would much rather see something that benefits both Live and TLP, like a better leveling/catch up system.

Besides, it's pretty obvious that DBG has already started taking TLP money into account and begun giving that back to the TLP community, Mischief being the biggest clue. I know a few months ago there were also some hefty Epic quest mob timers lowered, something irrelevant to Live. I just wonder how much more they'll do.

Don't form your opinion on the basis of one raid. EQ raiding is much more involved than what you've described. Constant movement is a big part of many events.

True, but it took something like 5 years on Phinny. I finally had to buy CoV. Had I known then what I know now, I might not have bothered. Still, I had to get to Live to say I did it.

Meh, I don't mind it. OTOH, I didn't spend much time in the old Freeport back in the day. The buy/sell zone on Xegony was in Gfay. Didn't get to commons much.

Prove it if you care enough. Otherwise, I'll believe it when I see it, and so far, I haven't.

Okay, no new content for classic EQ. When are they starting Revamped EQ, not EQ Next or EQ 3. EQ2 was fun for a bit but didn't have the staying power that Classic EQ has had for many people. I would say the only game that has hooked me as much if not more was Vanguard. Vanguard was plagued with issue from start to finish but it still is my favorite MMORPG from 1 to 50.

Been a live player on and off for 20+ years. The new content is the same thing over and over and over. Merc are a waste of time. The feel of the game after GoD and OoW changed and not for the better, for me, maybe not for everyone else.

I believe this is an absolute true statement. TLP servers have been EQ cash cow for 5+ years.

I like the look of Free Port and Qeynos, not gonna lie, maybe not the layout but the look/feel. I also like the look of most of the revamped classic zones. I wish they would update Kaladim and Butcherblock. Dwarfs need some love also, how about hooking up the gnomes and wood elves?

There's the stench of arrogance in this thread. A sort of TLP elitism that not only believes that those servers, as divergent as they are, are the most important. But, that everyone who's not having fun the right way on non-TLP don't deserve anything going forward.

What do you want, for DPG to churn out weird new TLP servers everytime someone starts a new thread asking for a new ruleset with constant merging or even deletion of last months favorite flavor?

Before EQ2 sunsets they should just turn it into an EQ1 remake and call it a day. That might be kinda radical.

It's comical. Without live, there would be no TLP to ever play on because the game would've died years before TLPs came about. Live is the lifeblood of this game. The arrogant TLPmillers who come and go like the seasons somehow think they are superior are hilarious. Meanwhile you have live players who have been going strong continuously for a decade+

I have seen more people fall off into oblivion without a trace in my guild on Aradune over the last year than I have in the last 3+ years on my live guild. Live players are very committed and unwavering. TLP players are like the leaves on a tree comparatively. People on the TLP forums talk about burn out all the time? Burn out from what, 8 months? Try 8 years steady without any extended breaks away from the game.

The changes the game went through starting in GoD and onward could be a bit jarring, but I never had an issue with them. Never played GoD in era, but came back for OoW and it was fun. There aren't many expansions I didn't like at least something from. But yes, to each their own.

Mercs though, not a waste of time. Literally a savior for many of us trying to play when our friends had long since moved on. Granted, the apprentice mercs are crap around level 60+, but the J5's do pretty well until EoK/RoS. Merc's have both reinvigorated the game, and frustrated players at the same time. They are just robots, but they enable us to do things we couldn't do before, so they are worth it.

I'm only half kidding about Freeport, I'll never forgive them for it, but it does have some positive aspects here and there. Qeynos is classic to me, but it wasn't changed. Maybe not the fastest place to start a character, but it's where I like to start. Other than that, no issues with any other revamped zones so far.

It's unhealthy IMO to play the same game for that long. I am never going to play the same game for more than 6 months, life is way too short to be playing ONE game when there are THOUSANDS of them out there. And the fact that those "committed and unwavering" will trash on how bad the expansions are yet still purchase and play them is not a good thing. Both the Live community and the developers have placed a very large gate between new/returning players and the current game, and the community has no interest in making their game better or seeing its community grow. They aren't there to play the content, they are there to play the content with the people they've been doing it with "for 8 years steady without any extended breaks." Take away their guilds and friends and see how many of them still play.

Live isn't the lifeblood of this game at all. It's TLP. TLP has done nothing but grow while the Live population dwindles, despite F2P usually being a massive population bump for games that utilize it. TLP doesn't need a new expansion worth of content every year, people will gladly play through 1-2 years worth of 3 month unlocks. The amount of Live players who play TLP is way higher than the amount of TLP players who play Live, that should say enough.

Also link to these burnout comments please.

Who says they don't play any other game? I play other games all the time.

Not going to know if an expansion is good or not until you really buy it and play it for extended periods. Look at the hype that games like Cyberpunk got and the millions who bought it. What happened? The game was a pile of flaming s***. The gaming community as a whole has an issue of buying things well in advance only for them to find out the games are buggy, underdeveloped, or just bad.

This is nothing than just pure, fabricated nonsense with zero physical evidence.

I have been playing since my return in 2012 without interruption. I had a few friends come and go. I've been in a few guilds in that time on a few servers. I'm still here. I guess your hypothetical dribble is nothing more than just that.

Keep telling yourself that. When the average TLP player is gone half the year, where do you think the revenue is coming from? The sky? No. It comes from people who are playing year round, year in and out and paying for it.

I'm not in the business to go around saving comments and threads of people talking about burnout. You want to find them? Browse and you'll find them without much issue.

That's what I thought.

Feel free to show us your Live characters, as well.