Add maps to the game.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Strawberry, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. Strawberry Augur

    Right, although I don't know of other MMO where you need to download a map just to be able to navigate, it is true that many have map add-ons for quests, tradeskills, etc.

    And it's a problem, you keep putting up walls like that, you make the game less and less accessible, especially when it involves something like maps that aren't optional for new players, but a necessity to be able to comfortably navigate many of the zones without getting lost.
    Leerah likes this.
  2. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    You come across as kind of dense, so I'll spell it out......

    There's nothing RANDOM about it. There are two providers of maps for EQ who are VERY well known, and it's known where to download the packs.

    And apparently, we're ALL very comfortable doing that (downloading recognized, non-random zip files).

    What you're doing is called a straw man argument.
  3. Strawberry Augur

    Did you read anything I said, this isn't about me or you, but about beginner or returning players.

    These players don't know that they lack maps, they don't know who provides maps, and they have every right to forego a game that requires them to break all internet rules, ignore window's warnings, just to be able to navigate the world.

    These barriers to entry shouldn't be there, the game should provide the tools to comfortably navigate the game so these players don't leave from sheer frustration due to unorthodox and unwelcoming game design decisions.
  4. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Horsecr@p.

    We all went through this. We talked to players in game, we read the boards, we figured out what we needed to do. There's no reason to think new players won't go through the same learning curve, and get to the same level of knowledge we're at.

    Also: "break all internet rules", etc. You're a drama queen, and if you hadn't figured it out, you turn people off. Also, none of us agree. A mature human would say, well I tried, they don't agree, so I'll move on. You? Just more yelling and histrionics.

    We. Don't. Agree.

    Move on
    Velisaris_MS and Nennius like this.
  5. Strawberry Augur

    Your suggestion might have had merit when servers were highly populated. In 2021, when a new player starts a game on a non-TLP server, they are the only person in the zone.

    You know how many people were in /general chat when I helped that streamer on Selo? 6.

    Who exactly are these people supposed to talk to if there is no one in their zone and no one saying anything in the game? For all they know they are the only person in the game. The experience you had when starting EQ is not at all comparable to the state of EQ today.
  6. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Tbh, the game would feel slightly more user-friendly if there were basic maps for all the zones, downloaded directly with the launcher.

    And the maps aren't that easy to get, last time I tried to download good's maps, the download-link didn't work with chrome, and I had to switch browser.

    Same problem with the UI, the standard layout is not exactly streamlined for a newbie. you have to fiddle with it for at least half an hour to be ready to play(much longer if you have a 4k monitor). While other games lets you start with all the commonly used hot-buttons already defined and on-screen.

    A lot of MMOs are so accessible that you can play them the moment the launcher lets you in.
    Leerah and Raptorjesus5 like this.
  7. Littlelegs Elder

    so dramatic! fq in the summer is the greatest.

    I propose

    Step 1: Goodurden and Brewall death match irl, slappers only. Pay-per-view streamed from a super unstable platform that crashes all the time.
    Step 2: Winner is legally compelled to stop providing maps to the public
    Step 3: Short grieving period for the slain
    Step 4: Shady brokers that run this game offer the slap-fest winner a prize pack of several waterproof cameras as compensation for their maps and a firm high-five for surviving the gruesome ordeal a few minutes ago
    Step 5: Tasteful funeral for the slain, more of a celebration. Eulogy to be composed by Villette

    It isn't outrageous to think maps of (or close to) the detail put together by players should be available with the game at this point. It isn't at all. The mystique of discovering area maps without a safety net of guides (to use or not) etc is kind of gone in my personal video game experience.

    However, this is a 3 second dialogue:

    Players: there should be maps.
    Devs: yeah. there won't be. talk to your friends.
    Devs (to themselves): getting the milk for free baybbeeeeeeeeee

    Honestly the swarms of players that are deterred by lack of maps ... maybe not ready for the lack of a whole bunch of other stuff in eq. But there should be maps.
  8. Maedhros High King

    Nothing like searching for a problem that already has a solution and then deftly blocking everyones attempt to point out your obtuseness.
  9. Strawberry Augur

    Right, it is even more daunting today due to all the added abilities. I started playing one of my characters after a long pause, the UI was no longer there. Having to find all the relevant abilities, AA, spells, clickies, rewriting macros, and incorporating all this into the hotbars was way too daunting of a task.

    MMO have a tendency to build features upon features without realising the UI starts to become too unwieldy to support them all.

    I believe this partly explains the popularity of TLP and WoW Classic. A large part of the attraction is likely nostalgia, but another explanation is likely that the game is easier to manage because it removes the complexity that expansions brought.
  10. Strawberry Augur

    Forcing players to go to 3rd party sites to download zip files is not a solution. Certainly not a good solution, nor one that is sustainable.

    I addressed this issue before and remember that people argued that referring to these sites as "obscure" was a mischaracterization on my part.

    Since then, one of those sites is blocked by several browsers, because it doesn't even support https, which makes it vulnerable to data exploits. Non-https sites are increasingly being blocked by browsers, and will soon no longer be accessible. Rightfully so.

    Not only is forcing players to use 3rd party sites a horrible idea, it is not sustainable because these sites will at one point simply be blocked if they aren't part of a safe software repository.
  11. Strawberry Augur

    Where is anyone being "blocked" ? This is an open discussion where anyone is allowed to contribute.

    However, take note that I do not feel obliged to agree with others if I believe my opinion is valid, and I think it is. Players should have access to the tools to navigate the game in a manner that is enjoyable, without the need to seek out files from 3rd parties.
  12. Svann2 The Magnificent

    I imagine the tunes would change greatly if Goodurden and Brewall were to leave EQ.
  13. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Certainly mine would. I have all of my old maps saved on a thumb drive. But for any new expansion I would be out of luck for a bit.
  14. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    No one gets participation awards in EQ. Its not kindergarten and its not going to be easy.

    We are given the basic tools.

    This is a game that requires thought, deductive reasoning, common sense, the ability to research and learn thru other sites, and a bit of humor among other things.

    You could also demand that all the other 3rd party sites like the one for the full Artisan's walk (Adelita township?) thru with spread sheets etc or EQ Traders with all the recipes, Paullynch quest write ups, Bonzz, Fanra and Alla, EQ resource with all their strategy, mob drops and other information be incorporated into the game

    But its not going to happen. Nor will they put maps into the base game unless they maybe pay Brewell or Goods and just use those but I doubt the server can carry that load also.

    Every new or returning player we interact with on my server has had no problem downloading the maps and its the first thing we suggest to them...right after the tutorials.

    I highly doubt it is a reason for anyone leaving the game
    Hypatia, Tatanka and Nennius like this.
  15. Petalonyx Augur


    I'd love it if they finished the job. Curious what made it time consuming? And, is that still an obstacle?

    Maps are pretty important for new and returning players. By not hosting them within the EQ game itself, players can feel forced to download from other sites, and this can encourage a culture of 3rd party program use.
  16. Littlelegs Elder

    oooh boy. this is what people say facebook is like.

    #mapmakersarepeople2
  17. Bardy McFly Augur

    Clearly OP doesn't play WoW, or doesn't raid there. Also probably only played the vanilla install of Skyrim and never used ReShade to enhance the graphics of virtually any DirectX game.

    I understand being careful about what you click, what you download, what you run. But if you trust absolutely nobody, ever, then you are selling yourself way short of half the reason to PC game and should probably just stick to console gaming. It's also best practice to do your gaming on a separate device from any finances or security critical tasks, best delegated to a more secure non-Windows platform, anyway.

    Download the maps or don't. But I wouldn't prioritize any dev time on in-game maps with all the other things that could be worked on like a better graphics engine or larger expansion releases. Are the community maps perfect? No, but they get the job done.

    Also, if you are getting tons of security warnings trying to copy the maps in, then you're probably still using the legacy Program File (x86) install folder that hasn't been the recommended installation location for years.
    Szilent and Ssdar like this.
  18. Act of Valor The Newest Member

    for what it's worth, I don't think saying "please" is akin to begging
  19. Riou EQResource


    Believe they had it set up so you could submit maps, then there were like rules on the maps, so an employee would have to look over submissions and check they follow whatever the rules were

    Believe they were also going to give credit, but people would just upload someone elses maps to it to try to claim the credit
  20. Moege Augur

    deftly ? I disagree.

    OP does not have to download a zip file either, can click on the directory and download the txt files.
    Maedhros likes this.