Agro Questions

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Grinde, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. Grinde Journeyman

    So, full disclosure: This is the first TLP I’ve played and I haven’t played Live since 2000 when I was a Wizard. So I apologize if this is a bad question.

    Agro seems a bit different than I’ve ever seen it in any iteration of EQ. I’m playing a warrior (low level so I am fully ready to hear “yeah it’ll change”). But I’ve grouped with Paladins and SKs who have had similar issues so I figured I’d ask:

    First: Bards get and hold agro with ease on this server. Not only when they pull, but when fighting. They can be playing the level one bars song and easily swipe agro.

    Second: I can be fighting a mob and pressing the taunt button and I get the message, “you already have this creature’s attention” when, in fact, he’s kicking the bard in the teeth.

    Third: I notice disease cloud and flash of light/stuns don’t appear to hold agro very well.

    Fourth: Root doesn’t seem to prioritize the closest target for agro purposes.

    I know at 20 I get provoke so I’m sure that will help some.

    My assumption is that there is a low health agro mechanic that is much higher than what I’ve seen in the past. Something like 60% and lower maybe?

    But I’m spitballing. I’d appreciate any help in figuring this out. Thanks!
  2. Rauven Augur


    Buffs generate agro when they are applied, and I believe when they are reapplied. This means the bards are reapplying them every few seconds. They can mitigate this by not using their twists (/melody) until the tank has the mob in question under control.

    I think what happens here (and someone may have more information on this) is you are at the top of the threat list. But you need a bit more to get the target to switch. In this case all the bard has to do is step away for a moment and then let it switch to you and it should be fine. In theory.

    I noticed this when I started on Agnarr a few years ago. I assume its because of their lower mana costs or the fact they do less damage (in disease cloud's case).

    I remember this being wonky as far back as 2002. It never seems to work they way you think it does. Could be more random now though.

    Its night and day from what I've seen in the past.

    I hope what I said gives a bit of insight. Just know I haven't played TLP since Agnarr about 2 years ago. So my info is a little older. But I would like to add that pets now can take and hold agro with melees in the group. That's something EQ didn't originally do. So if you've got pet users, they will need to manage their agro, and if that pet is yellow con to you, you're going to struggle to keep threat off them.

    I don't remember what that means for enchanter charm pets. I -think- the agro goes to the charming chanter. But I haven't played an enchanter since.. Ragefire I think. But just something to keep in mind. Again I think some others might be able to clarify some of the things I'm not 100% on.
  3. Aiona Augur


    Hang in there, it'll get better!

    I just wanted to add a thought concerning taunting mobs, sometimes you do have the highest threat on an NPC, but it is a caster and the casting animation has it turn to face someone else in the group to cast spells (whether it be root or a nuke or whatever), and then it turns back to face you. In this case, it's not that you lost threat, it's that the mob just briefly targeted someone else. Perhaps that's a poor way to explain that but that's how it looks to me.

    Provoke will help a lot but keep in mind that you'll get more tools later, with AA's you'll become a lot more effective in every way :)
  4. Grinde Journeyman

    Appreciate both of these replies.

    It's not the caster stuff, it's melee mobs. Though festering hags are a pain. I haven't snagged provoke yet, but last night I was in the fireplace in UR and the paladin in my group was holding agro well, so it seems like it's just something that scales now.

    Thank you!
  5. Doranur_Aleguzzler Filthy Casual™

    Something else to consider, what are your casters doing? Are the wizards spam nuking? That will make your job holding aggro much harder. Are the healers having to spam cast heals to keep you up? That too will make your job harder. I've played both healers (shaman for two decades, cleric now) and wizard (for years in the past, and now). As important as it is to apply damage or heals, it's just as important to manage your own aggro generation. Probably one of the best tools to use to hold aggro is Flame Lick, and unfortunately, you won't be able to use that.

    What you CAN do, is put some of the vendor purchased melee augs in your weapons. There are four types. A heal over time, a direct heal, a damage over time, and a direct damage. Play around to find what combo suits you best, but all will generate more hate for you when they proc. Just keep in mind they are lore, so you can only use one of each type when they are also the same level. Down the road, when you get access to weapons or other augs that proc stun, that is generally accepted as the path to follow.
    Aiona likes this.
  6. Aiona Augur


    Good suggestion. Wulfenite aug for your main group/raid weapons are the only way to go for Warrior though, IMO.
    Iyacc likes this.
  7. TheDohn Augur

    Equally important to note - the first person on the aggro list for an unaggroed mob gets +100 aggro. Later on, this is nothing - but at low levels, it is a huge amount of aggro to overcome if you are not the puller, especially while taunt is so unreliable.
  8. Dre. Altoholic

    Most people who start Warriors on TLP should play Knights. Warriors lack basic agro production without EB weapons.
    Xhartor and Triconix like this.
  9. Triconix Augur

    For all the complaints about rogues on these threads, classic warriors are by far the worst class in the game and it hurts every fiber in my body typing it out because it's my favorite class (one I've played for 21+ years). Even with the addition of stun augs and backflagging provoke into classic, the warrior class is pretty inept at hate generation and people just exploited their way to hate generation (hello, jboot spam) in the past and accepted it as normal. They get outclassed by pretty much every single class with little to no effort.
    Xhartor and Dre. like this.
  10. Grinde Journeyman


    I'll counter this a little bit... I don't want to play a knight in the later xpacs. Even beyond Kunark. So starting one doesn't make a whole lot of sense. However, it will mean I have significant agro issues without the proper weaponry and augments.
  11. Sycopata Elder

    I play a warrior and i make decent agroo management, a Polished granite tomahawk are extreme cheap in mischief, and go to a SSOY wen you can affort it, also put the 2 cheap stun augments in your weapons, with 4 agro procs, taunt, and provoke, you can hold agro. And take in consideration, the pull agroo bonus, alwais are posible pull yourself.
  12. Shakara Augur


    This should shed some light

    1. Bards have an aggro cap meaning they can not generate more than X amount of aggro per action they take, However this aggro cap is high enough that it doesnt affect the bards aggro significatnly at low levels. After about level 25-30 you will notice bards almost can never hold aggro until then they are just aggro monsters.

    2. To make a mob switch targets you must have a certain amount of hate over the current target. This hate threshold is not known to me but it is not a ton. It is however enough that taunt alone will never cause the mob to attack you. To pull aggro you need to taunt and then use some aggro generating ability. With warriors this is basically just auto attacking which is why you will see often after you taunt the target hits you once then goes back to the melee as most melee classes will out aggro you if its just both you swinging.

    3. Disease cloud I heard was nerfed sometime back but stuns/blind still seem to be solid aggro abilities. There are other very high aggro abilities though you have to watch out for (tash, flame lick, mez, charm).

    As a War early on you will struggle to hold aggro because of your lack of aggro generating abilities. Both knights have ways to establish an aggro lead after taunting the mob in ways that Warriors do not until later expansions
  13. Baldur Augur

    At low levels aggro is super wonky, I noticed it as well as a paladin, and warriors have it even worse.

    At 50 now I have no problem with aggro, but leveling up I had issues, especially at the lower levels. Blind did not seem to generate near as much aggro as I remember it generating, but the stuns work great.

    As a warrior you need to get weapons with procs that will help you generate aggro, the melee proc augs help as well. Polished Granite Tomahawk is decent and generates aggro when it procs. There were even some out of era weapons early on like Packmaster's Lash that were dropping that are good aggro generators. You'll probably have to use less ratio weapons for aggro generation as a warrior.
  14. Xhartor Augur

    The problem with SSoY's is that they aren't really end game weapons, and generally lack swing threat generation of weapons other classes are using. Also low dex leads to depressed proc rates. A lot of guilds use Knight as the main tanks in classic, they don't have the threat problems and being able to tank with a shield help make up for size difference.
  15. Foaming I Drank Bleach IRL Once

    PGT, and all buff/rune procs, no longer produce threat. This is due to the way Darkpaw nerfed jboot spam.
  16. Sycopata Elder

    I have used PGT the last 30 lvls and they generate agroo, i noticed mobs swich target to me wen it procs.
  17. Tyranthraxus Grognard

    Rune Procs generate threat as they allways have. I'm tanking TSS with a vish stick waiting on my amberpike. The issue your having with aggro in classic is you keep waiting for procs to generate threat, on mobs that die too fast for that to happen. Proc rates are low in early expacks. They help, but aren't enough, lean into dps and add wulfenites for that little bit of help. Aggro generation is different than it used to be but it's still very possible.

    As an example I was very successful in Luclin with a BBB vs, bloodfrenzy/boc combo, dps plus runeproc vs the highest possible aggro setup. Was neck and neck with similarly geared tanks.
  18. Elabone Augur

    Don't let the bard pull. I leveled as a warrior, with a bard the entire time, and never had aggro issues.

    You pull, pull multiples, make the bard stand back until you attack both mobs.
  19. Sycopata Elder

    We must also differentiate, when someone in the group literally sabotages your intention to be a tank, a clear example of some players who for some reason want to claim the superiority of their class against a warrior and are dedicated to spam agroo to make your work difficult, and It is something that you can notice perfectly, but if it happens in your group to stop that ranger / bard be happy and let it be your cleric who complains about LoM. Also the one of some casters that throw great nukes to enemy with 90% + of life, so that their cleric has to spend mana on them by doubling the cost of their nukes. Well, it is practically impossible to remove the agro and they end up burning all their mana to kill that enemy and be able to sit for a long time until they have mana to repeat that play.