Top 3 Classes for TLPs

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Shakara, May 15, 2021.

  1. Numiko Augur

    best classes for TLP's are ones who need zero gear.
  2. Shakara Augur

    Warriors are highly overrated. There are a select few mobs in every xpac that you feel you must tank with a war and you can almost count them on one hand (AoW, Vulak, Trakanon, Rallos Zek, Vallon Zek, Phara Dar, Emp Ssra) outside these encounters Knights just tank better.
  3. Sycopata Elder

    I enjoyed alot my SK on agnar, until Defensive disc arrives, and you feel useless in raids. "Offtanking" or eating DT.
  4. Shakara Augur

    This is not what I have seen in practice. Group utility shines much more than the SKs personal utility especially in early raids. Why I think people feel SKs are better is because they have more agency. Because SK is a selfish class they have a lot of tools to keep themselves alive and boost their damage but offer very little to their groups in terms of support. Sure the SK can get to the camp easier than the Paladin but what happens if someone dies? There are only 2 classes who can rez in classic and 3 from Kunark-PoP and when you are deep in the hole or guk that can be the difference from the group breaking or killing for another 3 hours. In raids battle rezes are a huge boon as well. Sks might be able to heal themselves through a boss encounter but a Paladin can heal their group through the encounter
    Wulfhere likes this.
  5. Larsen Augur

    Prior to Luclin, which adds two low-level stuns, paladins get their first stun at level 28 and their second in the 40s, and both have extremely long recast times by snap-aggro standards. Tanking exclusively with blind is really, really awkward because it's impractical to cast from range since it essentially fears the mob if noone is in melee. That means you can't just cast it on incoming mobs, which is particularly annoying with the casters that litter classic dungeons.

    Flash of Light generates considerably less threat than stuns and snares, so while it's functional as an aggro spell, it's the very worst of all the commonly used ones. I can't remember the numbers, but it's nowhere near as "snappy" as stuns, snares and AC debuffs which you pretty much just cast once per mob and stop worrying about anything. It can also cause serious problems if someone outside melee range takes aggro, because the mob will just take off running as if it had been feared.

    The stuns also cost way more mana than other aggro spells. You can sustain Clinging Darkness or Flame Lick forever because they cost like 15 mana or something, but the first stun costs 35 and the second costs 60. In an era without mounts and FT and 4-hour KEI, you will actually go OOM in a chain-pulling group if you don't have a mana regen buff. Even with a Clarity buff/potion you'll only just barely sustain and won't really have the extra fuel to use other spells with any kind of regularity.

    Luclin fixes it all by adding Cease and Desist, but until then, paladin threat generation is pretty awkward until the 40s when you have two stun spells--and since neither one can be spammed, it's still not ideal. You're often standing there waiting for your aggro spells to come off cooldown while an add beats someone's face in. Shadowknights (and rangers) don't have this problem at all. They have 100% reliable aggro from the start of the game, cheap and spammable.

    Paladin aggro is very weak and inconvenient until the third expansion. Relying on expensive spells with longish cooldowns is terrible for chain-pulling in a dungeon. They're not incapable of tanking, but it's distinctly worse than the other hybrids. Their utility is largely redundant in most groups, and they don't even get their own special heals and buffs until Velious.
  6. Sepulchre New Member

    Any link to read more into that?
  7. taliefer Augur

    Paladins are borderline OP in classic. Problem is they are total dog poo in Kunark and velious before it starts to get better in luclin and goes up from there
  8. WokeCat Augur

    Compared to who? Like I'm pretty sure a Paladin in Kunark and Velious will be more useful than a Rogue.
  9. Trebla7th Augur


    Except the Hole opens in classic when the Bard mez cap is 45. Anywhere past the castle entrance is going to be almost entirely unmezzable. Rock Golems are evenly distributed between level 50 (or 51?) and 54, meaning that only 25-40% will be charmable and nothing will be mezzable. Deeper in, none of the ghosts are level 51 or lower.

    That said, this is a "one zone weak spot" for bard CC that can be overcome with careful pulling (lull works fine) in most cases. The far bigger weak spot is Kunark/Velious where mez songs do not keep up with dark blue content until the 57 cap song in Luclin.

    But overall, this is a pretty minor "weakness" compared to the lulls some other classes go through, especially when other unique mechanics are added (v2 haste in Velious and v3 in Luclin) as well as the prevalent need for resist and group regen songs. It's more of a changed role than an actual weakness.
  10. Vule_Xyrashue Journeyman


    From when Paladins get beacon through at least TBM, shadowknights are the 16th choice for a raid spot. Warriors tank everything that's actually hard to tank. When sks aren't tanking they bring nothing to the table, when pals aren't tanking they can heal. That's why you saw the guilds that had the luxury of choosing at the time run with 1-2 SK and 5+ Paladin.
  11. Wulfhere Augur

    Life taps are powerful, no doubt. The casting time disparity on SK/Pal healing is not that large until hybrid innate spell haste kicks in for SK life taps.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    At best you describe a poorly played paladin.

    Concerning the addition of Luclin stuns, they make low level paladin tank-play as easy as for an SK. Cease had some use to me as a 2nd or 3rd stun (at 60), but Flash is still more powerful. Desist is a badly balanced spell and never used by me. Neither Luclin stuns are needed by a well played paladin yet I can see they encourage players to roll new paladin characters in Luclin.

    Gaining threat on all incoming mobs, prior to Stun, is an easy specialty for a paladin who can cast a Minor or Light Heal (or even a cure or buff) on the puller. This can be done without line of sight and is something an SK cannot typically do (e.g. casting Endure Cold on the puller) unless they are themselves the puller.

    Flash of Light (as with most stat debuffs) has about 50% of the aggro now on TLP as it did in Original. It still out competes Clinging Darkness (while Flame Lick is tops) and can and should be chain cast (only 12 mana) to hold aggro over anyone else with ease. The fear utility of blind has no level limit and continues to work even on Fear immune, level restricted, and raid boss mobs. A well played paladin can use Flash of Light forever and I would actually like to see the paladin spell line upgraded all the way to 115 with level appropriate ATK (and other) debuffing power along the way.

    From levels 1 to apx 25, the highest aggro problem in a group is actually beneficial bard songs. A good way for a paladin to take and hold the aggro of multiple mobs in camp is actually to cast Yaulp on cool down. Again an SK cannot peel multiple mobs off another like that with any practicality until they get Wave of Enfeeblement at level 27. In a low level group without mez, a paladin can hold aggro on all the mobs in camp much easier then an SK by leveraging the power of beneficial witness check aggro.
  13. jiri_ Augur

    Is this still true post DoT revamp? I wasn't playing a Necro actively during that period, but looking back at old numbers, it looks like Ashengate Pyre, to name one, added an extra ~500 damage per tick at all ranks.
  14. Machen New Member


    Yes, for almost all that range, because the necro dot revamp only applies 75+. Necros are unchanged 1-70. Well until the nerf in today's patch, that will actually make them worse 1-70. At TSS they improve dramatically with the revamp.
  15. Shamra New Member

    Definitely not a Paladin! I have played for 20+ years on The Rathe and Paladins had become useless in the newer Kunark expansion. People who had mained them for all of those years were re rolling another toon because they could not play a Paladin effectively.
  16. Magician9001 Augur

    Not sure, but the dot revamp is TSS and later. My comment was saying they're the worst class in all the 65 and 70 cap expansions.
  17. jiri_ Augur

    Ah, I thought you were including TSS in that. My mistake.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    On topic, I believe it's cleric, warrior, monk.
  19. nagash101 Augur

    Then that would be 6 Monks.
  20. nagash101 Augur

    i want to believe this but i just can't have hope that it is true.