Wizard Love

Nights Endless Terror

Now known as Nights Perpetual Terror in COV, or NPT

whats next you gonna tell me shamans melee for arms of holy wrath and rabid bear procs?! crazy talk

everyone knows only the main tank and pure melee get to melee. everyone else stands at range and backup tanks wait their turn

Every time I see a shaman melee in rabid bear they die. True story

To begin with, Tantor is a poor event to choose for parse comparisons due to differences in approach between SV and RoI. It's not even the same event when DPS assists on each bunny as they spawn vs stacking upwards of 10 to AE, and as mentioned, spreading out the raid vs everyone piling up behind Tantor also necessitates strategical alterations, this moreso than the kill times is impacting the discrepancy. To say nothing of the fact last night took us 877s (14.6m) which is much longer than your previous parse you're comparing it to, this seems like an odd sample to reference and one and done the suggestions from others and decry them as falsities.

I'm not going to get into much else other than to say it most certainly is possible given that every SR wizard sustained over 1mil on Sunday (336s event time). But 1 IoG/CH/Wolf/Spire on a 14.6m event is low, 7 claws in 14.6m is low. Not Meleeing is understandable for Tantor given how spread out everyone is, but there's no reason not to when the raid is all in close proximity. Use swarm pets to determine max melee and avoid most of the AE Ramp/Interrupts on Defenders/Arbiter/Crusaders/Zlandicar/Sontalak/Vulak etc and reap the free DPS. The only times I don't melee on my Caster toons is when I can't get the ADPS to come into range and I'd lose Auras/Synergies et al doing so, I survive fine in every raid team that I castermelee in.

"Also, for meleeing, that's one of the reasons why Wizards really should get NET. Not only do we have the highest crit mods and fury of gods to get the best procs we also could use the extra healing from it. Which is pretty significant if you look at the numbers it heals for"

Significantly dead. That's exactly what the aforementioned Mage always said. "Give me NET!" Then- SPLAT.

There's a good chance that all the people advocating for meleeing are not having issues dying, or else they would maybe have readjusted their tactics to not do so.

There may be something the guilds they are in are doing that yours is not, such as utilizing AE/splash healing to its fullest potential.

Or your anecdotal evidence is more compelling. /shrug

spell choices aside - and I echo the others in that you did not, as you claim, follow the advice given - you're plainly casting fewer spells. In the previous casting log you offered, you cast 13.4 spells/minute. In this one, you cast 12.4 spells/minute. Kizant's breakdown had him at 14.5 spells/minute in the 480s log. That's a somewhat slower pace than I expected for him, tbh - perhaps related to the dancing for AEs. I'm accustomed to seeing wizards who don't do that dance clock in closer to 16, like this from a guild raid:



or like this from Cazic's open raids, it's closer to the durations you've posted:

/GU Combined (15) as: Tantor in 11.0m 10.6B@16,010.7Ksdps | Wizard #12 325.3M@490.6Ksdps

Combined (15) as: Tantor on 5/12/2021

Wizard - 187
--- Improved Twincast VIII - 1
--- Frenzied Devastation XXXI - 1
--- Fury of the Gods LIV - 1
--- Spire of Arcanum XII - 1
--- Thaumaturgic Vortex Rk. II - 13
--- Arcane Fury V - 1
--- Ethereal Confluence - 13
--- Arcane Destruction VII - 1
--- Ethereal Brand Rk. III - 64
--- Twincast Rk. III - 2
--- Bifold Focus - 2
--- Restless Ice Comet Rk. III - 50
--- Claw of Sontalak Rk. III - 31
--- Weave of Reclamation - 1
--- Idyllic Gambit Rk. II - 3
--- Flashbrand Rk. III - 2
--- Glyph of Arcane Secrets V - 1

that's 16.3 spells/minute

Yeah 16 per minute might be a better ballpark number to aim for. I've mostly just been picking interesting parses and not sure how much lag we had or if I had to do an emote or anything.

On Monday we had less lag than usual on FV and my main spell counts were pretty good for the first 3 golems on Arbiter. Around 19 per minute I guess. Been looking at what parses might be best to talk about but they all got some issues. Also, on FV we have a bunch of wizards so I actually get to use alliance. And I suppose when using the self-combustion line it's going to slow casting down a bit.

Combined (15): Starseed Golem in 709s

Kazint - 227
--- Claw of Sontalak - 53
--- Composite Fire - 11
--- Ethereal Brand - 48
--- Ethereal Confluence - 20
--- Flashbrand - 41
--- Frostbound Coalition - 7
--- Restless Ice Comet - 5
--- Scorching Beam - 13
--- Thaumaturgic Vortex - 26
--- Wildscorch Strike - 3

Hey, Devs... this just in, wizard DPS still sucks. Can we get a little help over here?

wish it killed me more need some thing t odo during the week

It's been 3 months since we heard from Aristo, 4 months since procs were nerfed. We know you know there is a problem with the class an update would be nice.

1. Can we get an update on what is going to be done to help the wizzy class.
2. Have the improvements to lag been completed, or what else is going to be done.

dont expect any help till next year your better off rerolling devs are more concerned about $ and rolling out the new prog servers wizards are so low population they have no care to invest time to fix the class.

Thanks to the wizards for sharing some of their setups and parses. Particularly the Flashbrand inclusion... I neglect that spell, and Kizant for giving notes on differnt AE spells to use. I usually focus on beams only (COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT SPLASH!!!!!)

i've been tracking my own parses and performance for a few months.
Different raids always yield different results, of course.

This week's parses (note I was single wizard so no frostbound, and aDPS is chanter and druid - with chanter giving NET and me meleeing):

Second half of Vulak`Aerr in 398s, 4,171.2m @10480351 | Rogue 262.5m@(661.3k in 397s) | Rogue 246.1m@(621.5k in 396s) | Me Wizard + pets 238.9m@(603.4k in 396s) | Mage + pets 212.3m@(538.8k in 394s) | Mage + pets 190.9m@(492.1k in 388s) | Berserker + pets 190.6m@(488.8k in 390s) | Berserker + pets 178.7m@(453.7k in 394s) | Berserker + pets 176.8m@(575.8k in 307s) | Rogue 171.1m@(434.2k in 394s) | Rogue 139.2m@(351.5k in 396s) | Rogue 131.0m@(333.2k in 393s) {X} | Beastlord + pets 129.6m@(328.1k
I must have missed some DPS for necros not to appear so I'm not fully trusting this parse.

Crusaders - second burn mob
Charayan the Crusader in 126s, 4,287.8m @34029945 | Rogue 226.9m@(1,830.1k in 124s) | Rogue 191.0m@(1,540.7k in 124s) | Rogue + pets 188.5m@(1,532.2k in 123s) | Rogue 176.0m@(1,467.0k in 120s) | Ranger + pets 175.5m@(1,450.3k in 121s) | Necro 171.6m@(1,479.1k in 116s) | Ranger + pets 169.6m@(1,356.9k in 125s) | Necro 160.9m@(1,476.5k in 109s) | Druid !! 146.5m@(1,356.3k in 108s) | Rogue 145.2m@(1,220.3k in 119s) | Berserker + pets 143.4m@(1,327.3k in 108s) | Me Wizard 142.5m@(1,207.5k in 11 ...

And overall...
Jortreva the Crusader in 905s, 17,120.2m @18917325 | Necro + pets 879.3m@(984.6k in 893s) | Necro + pets 774.8m@(860.9k in 900s) | Rogue 743.5m@(831.6k in 894s) | Rogue 699.2m@(782.9k in 893s) | Rogue 677.0m@(760.7k in 890s) | Necro 669.6m@(741.5k in 903s) | Mage + pets 586.5m@(653.2k in 898s) {7} | Rogue + pets 575.4m@(649.5k in 886s) | Berserker + pets 570.9m@(638.6k in 894s) | Ranger + pets 563.3m@(632.2k in 891s) {7} | Shaman!! + pets 533.8m@(591.8k in 902s) | #12 Rogue 526.7m@(591.1k in 891s) | #13 Ranger + pets 519.4m@(581.7k in 893s) | #14 Berserker + pets 496.0m@(556.7k in 891s) {7} | #15 Me Wizard + pets 474.9m@(531.3k in 894s) {7}

Aaryonar first burn
Aaryonar in 72s, 2,136.9m @29678686 | Necro 114.2m@(2,595.4k in 44s) | Berserker + pets 109.1m@(2,226.2k in 49s) | Rogue 102.5m@(2,050.8k in 50s) | Rogue 100.5m@(2,050.4k in 49s) | Me Wizard 88102k@(1,874.5k in 47s) | Berserker + pets 85285k@(1,938.3k in 44s) | Rogue 80659k@(1,716.1k in 47s) | Beastlord + pets 80610k@(1,715.1k in 47s) | Rogue + pets 79471k@(1,621.9k in 49s) | Ranger + pets 77992k@(1,591.7k in 49s) {7} | Ranger + pets 77154k@(1,574.6k in 49s) | Rogue 76864k@(1,746.9k in 44s)

Tantor - Some AE time but mostly single target strat
Combined Tantor in 579s, 10,639.7m @18376009 | Necro + pets 659.3m@(1,164.9k in 566s) | Necro + pets 612.6m@(1,078.5k in 568s) | Necro + pets 513.6m@(899.4k in 571s) | Shaman!! + pets 502.8m@(877.4k in 573s) {7} | Rogue 453.6m@(794.4k in 571s) {7} | Ranger + pets 448.5m@(781.4k in 574s) {6} | Rogue 416.8m@(726.2k in 574s) {7} | Berserker + pets 399.4m@(698.2k in 572s) | Rogue 377.9m@(661.8k in 571s) | Berserker + pets 374.1m@(652.9k in 573s) | Shaman + pets 343.1m@(605.2k in 567s) |
| #19 Me Wizard 242.4m@(436.7k in 555s)


Point of sharing -
Wizards do best on short burst fights. Where the time is short, (and add AE in..) wizards do well.
Longer fights... sustained DPS is problematic, particularly with self aDPS being on long cycle times. That isn't to say with a lot of focus, can't still compete, but the gap between DPS output between classes isn't consistent. Should it be? maybe, maybe not.
As I noted previously in the thread - the note here is the ability to comepte with some rediculous numbers that other classes put out on a regular basis, with relative ease, on longer duration fights.
For me, being able to move from short term all in burns, to a longer burn duration, or even shorter cycle time, keeps us more effective. AND, the sporadic nature of Claw Twincase proc not being the basis for DPS gains. Yesterday, I had twincast proc 6 times in a row in one fight, and then twice on another longer duration fight

Combaeth - for comparator, this was me at the weekend with DPS output #19 Me Wizard 242.4m@(436.7k in 555s)
I neglected to use AEs, hadn't thought about flashbrand in the cast line up and do not have the bifold click... I will be looking to get it!!!
I definitely have room to improve on this fight in terms of spell set-up, and mix.

Combined: Tantor on 20/06/2021

Wizard - 199
--- Force of Will XXIV - 37
--- Ethereal Brand Rk. III - 28
--- Claw of Sontalak Rk. III - 24
--- Force of Flame XII - 23
--- Restless Ice Comet Rk. III - 19
--- Force of Ice XII - 17
--- Thaumaturgic Vortex Rk. III - 15
--- Ethereal Confluence - 12
--- Composite Fire - 7
--- Received Chromatic Haze Proc - 4
--- Quiet Harvest Rk. III - 3
--- Received Auspice of the Hunter - 3
--- Received Paragon - 2
--- Received Twincast - 2
--- Spire of Arcanum XII - 2
--- Twincast Rk. III - 2
--- Arcane Destruction VII - 1
--- Arcane Fury V - 1
--- Focus of Arcanum VII - 1
--- Frenzied Devastation XXXI - 1
--- Fury of the Gods LIV - 1
--- Geomantra XXV - 1
--- Grace of Unity - 1
--- Harvest of Druzzil XI - 1
--- Improved Twincast VIII - 1
--- Received Chromatic Haze - 1
--- Received Illusions of Grandeur - 1
--- Ward of Destruction XV - 1
--- Blazing Infiltration IX - 0
--- Icerend Strike III - 0
--- Mana Replication Strike III - 0
--- Thaumaturgic Vortex Effect - 0

Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.99C BETA

Clocking in at 12 spells/minute overall. Besides including much heavier use of Beam (only takes rabbit+named for beam to be good), you might try going without the Forces to see if that increases your volume of real spells. The mechanics of including them might be slowing you down.

Why would forces affect dps negatively? Assuming you cast them during global cooldown?

Lag encountered by most high end raid teams makes them prohibitive, as they'll habitually take longer than the GCD to fire

But if it is only slightly longer than GCD, then you would only loose a few "real" nukes in total. I would think 50+ forces would still be a net gain? Depends on how bad it is of course.

Aye, it can be wildly variable server to server, day to day, raid team to raid team. Szi is just observing that the casts per minute was slightly low in his opinion and inferring that the forces could be the culprit