Can we get access to old expansions collector editions via the Station store?

Reasonable take and I don't disagree ... I think most of these threads have been clamoring for rotational items on DP's marketplace. But Everquest has a rabid, addicted and fairly stable fanbase with many mature consumers who have disposable income for digital goods. Their 20 year track record is envious in their industry, I suspect. They are probably more in danger of having their customer base die off than having to beg for angel investors

That's why EQ1 needs to capitalize on that demographic and form a war chest.

EQ1's adults can afford to pay $20-40 per item or $100+ per bundle. This playerbase aren't pre-teens on Fortnite begging their parents for vBucks (Epic Games/Fortnite charges $15-$30 on most cosmetics).

A war chest can be used for TLP development, expansion development, or even a spiritual successor to EQ.

I'd hate to see EQ1 one day desperate for money and begging for $500-$10,000 pledges (or $$$ for some weird lifetime Pay-to-Win benefits) simply because we basically gave away past Collector/Premium Edition items on the cheap like charity.

I'm not trying to troll. I want to see the game afloat for a very long time.

As a corporate entity, DP and it's parent company, will probably not build a "war chest". As a for profit business, the annual profits are used to pay bonuses, stockholder dividends (owner public?), R&D and various other things to maintain or grow the business. Most companies do not like keeping cash laying around...very shortsighted unfortunately but cash is an asset that corporate entities view as a tool and if it's idling then something is wrong in their minds.

I think we're splitting hairs now. Money is money. A war chest can be spent for current development or future development.

Cash on hand is becoming more of the norm. You're seeing it in all Fortune 500 companies. Apple has amassed hundreds of billions of dollars even though they can conceivably pay more dividends or develop a self-driving vehicle.

But cash is also king for Pantheon MMO and Ashes of Creation to fuel their development. They are seeking individuals who are willing to front them $500-$10,000.

Benito, the problem you are going to keep running into is that you are using the marketing strategy of unique brands like Apple, or Coach, or Ferrari, to justify the marketing strategy of DPG. What you are saying isn't technically wrong, it's just so narrow and short-sighted that it could end up being the wrong strategy.

Poor people don't buy Ferrari's, there isn't a marketing strategy that will convince somebody to save for 30 years to buy a car they can't afford the insurance or upkeep on. So they don't market to those people. Everquest isn't a Ferrari. Collector's Editions aren't so special that that they need to maintain this level of non-achievability.

There is clearly a demand for these things among people who wouldn't spend $100 on them then, and certainly wouldn't spend $100 on them now. It only takes two people willing to pay $50 to make up for one person paying $100. So while the Veblen goods theory is true, even if hearing about it in every single post is annoying as fudge, it is irrelevant here. The ship has sailed on selling a lot of these for large amounts of money. They will sell some, but most will just say, "screw it, that's a waste of money."

Sell crap to normal people, they have money too. I used to spend $20 a month on Rocket League, because it was similar to subbing an MMO. That's $240 a year they could get me for easily. If they had offered me something super cool and unique for $240 I'd have told them to go fudge themselves. Know your customers, understand not just what they want, but what they are willing to pay for things.

What does the market say? The market for heritage crate and LoN items has exploded. Illusions (e.g. Ice Giant and Brownie) can go for 10 Krono per item. (10 Krono is equivalent to $169.99). They are being regularly sought after on those price points server wide. Merc contracts can hover around 1-2 Kronos.

The idea of Veblen goods and FOMO creates motivation (state of order) to buy and is not a market condition in itself.

You bring up Rocket League (owned by Epic Games). They have recently introduced subscriptions on Fortnite in addition to their cash shop. Epic Games caters to younger individuals with very limited disposable income but they still earn more than $1 billion annually. Employing the same marketing tactics I've outlined, most good Fortnite bundles (1 cosmetic theme) cost $20-$30 each on a "limited time" rotation. I think Darkpaw could sell past Collector/Premium Edition items for $20-$40 per item with bundles on a multiplier ($100+).

His points don’t have merit in the context of old collectors expansions, because DPG puts it on sale within the first 9 months. By that point anyone that wanted to buy it would have bought it as long as they’re playing. As you point out the game has 22 years of history, which means a constant cycling of returning players that you want to bring them back out of the vault.

Benito’s constant repeating of Veblen’s goods doesn’t apply and FOMO is mostly tied to the content of the expansion.

The average person with a lot of Krono's to spend probably didn't buy them with cash. More likely they are the person with the time in game to farm and trade for those Krono's from those who did buy them. Look at TLP launches, with plat farmers buying them up continuously. The average person might buy a Krono or two, to get a leg up, but those end up in the hands of others who then have nowhere else to spend them but on monthly subs and novelties.

FOMO only works on those who care about missing out. That's not everybody, probably not even most people. Otherwise we all would have bought this crap years ago when it was available the first time. Yes, you need FOMO for one strategy, but it works against you for another. Pricing is about what makes the most revenue, not the most high dollar sales, or the most sales. The most total sales revenue period.

As far as Epic goes, yes I know, I'm one of their biggest haters. Their CEO is an alpha-feminine-cleansing-product-bag who couldn't find any principle he wouldn't throw under the bus for bigger profits. He got lucky, Fortnite wasn't that good, but he changed it to a Battle Royale at the right time. It made a lot of easy money, but that is starting to fall off now. Hence the change in strategy. Season Passes and so forth are all the rage now, every game has them. Cosmetics are their bread and butter so it makes sense to include them in that model.

I'm sure Darkpaw could sell Collector/Premium Edition items for any amount they wanted. Somebody would buy them. The question is how many somebodies, and is selling less for more better than selling more for less? Nobody here really knows, not you or I. I just know that for a person like me, they won't get my money if they price them too high.

Heck, I still have a LoN card sitting unopened that I got for free back in the day. No idea what it is or what it's worth or could contain. Don't really care. Not everybody is on the FOMO train, and not every cosmetic item is a mystical gateway to big dollars.

EDIT: stupid filter

The prices I quoted are on Live Servers. The argument doesn't hold up since Krono is converted to months of subscription (convertible to RL cash savings).

Obviously, you can tell me $10 Collector Editions will generate "a ton of sales" (quantity). It violates the character of 'Veblen goods' (higher prices creates higher demand for a status symbol).

FOMO helps to motivate and convince people that $89 or $139 is worth the upgrade. Demand becomes inelastic because of the 'once-in-a-lifetime' availability of a status symbol.

I'm not sure if I would agree with your assessment. It remains wildly popular. The company is positioned well enough to sue Apple. I give credit where it is due.

Sure, we don't have the internal data. But based on the going rates of Heritage Crate and LoN illusions, merc contracts, and mounts; $39.99 for an entire Collector Edition is incredibly cheap. (I lost my appetite for the 'House of Thule' pack due to its constant availability and low price point).

I just want the Bixie house.. nothing game changing or anything that might give some tiny edge.

Umm, you know Krono's are account based right? Like you can trade for them anywhere and use them anywhere else. It doesn't matter where you get the Krono, you can trade it on any server or use it on any account you trade it to.

Furthermore the argument does hold up, because the value of a Krono has nothing to do with the argument. There will be people who buy a lot of Krono's and use them disposably, there will be others who farm plat or items and trade them for Krono's. Which of those tends to have more Krono's to use disposably is the argument, and there really is no way to know. What I do know is there are people who farm plat/items on TLP's or elsewhere and then use those to get lots of Krono. They drive up the price of Krono's where they do this, so it's likely to think they also drive up the price of things bought with Krono since they have disposable ones to use.

Yes, of course they are opposing strategies, the problem is you believe only one has merit. I just said they should figure out if more sales or higher prices were serving them better. We know where you stand Senior Veblen...

This is like the hundredth time you've explained this across several threads. We understand, we get it, we just don't care. Veblen/FOMO is not the only marketing strategy. Just cuz it's hot right now doesn't mean it's best for everything.

Fortnite is still popular, but it's not making the kind of money it was. There has been a steady decline. Timmy has been burning those profits paying for exclusives for the Epic store and that hasn't been giving the return he wanted. Eventually he's going to run out of spare cash to burn on bad ideas. Suing Apple wasn't about position, it was about his ego. They made him follow the same rules as everybody else and that pissed him off. He's most likely going to lose this lawsuit, and the discovery has been making him look stupid too, which has been a bonus for me at least.

There it is, you finally admitted it. Your the FOMO guy. This isn't about which marketing strategy is best for DPG, this is about you not regretting your purchases. How dare the plebs get HoT CE for less than the premium price you paid, and now lots of them have it. It makes you look bad, living among the plebs. I think I see some dirt on you, how did that get there? Next thing you know you'll be willingly shopping at Walmart.

But please, explain how Veblen/FOMO works again, I don't think we fully understand it yet. Maybe one more time, or two...

I'd purchase the illusions or port clickies from collectors accounts for $10 on 5 of my 6 accounts but I wouldn't purchase a single reproduction of any of the collector editions for $40, the other items that comes in the collectors editions carry no value to me. Mounts are too big and bulk, I don't use mercs enough, any familiar gets dismissed straight away and current familiars available through game play have better stats and I have no interest in housing.

That said the only other thing I would be interested in is the unlock for the 1 set or collectables from RoF, but that isn't even worth $10 for 15 AA.

Not really. I want this game to stay afloat for a long time. $20-40 per cosmetic item or $100+ cosmetic bundles is hell of alot better than Pay-to-Win mechanics or Darkpaw humiliatingly begging for monetary pledges.

I suspect people feel threatened by my posts because human nature and self-interest dictates the most gain for the least cost to themselves whereas I am providing the rationale to Darkpaw to maintain the status quo (the same status quo that has kept this game afloat).

We all want this game to stay afloat for a long time, and as we discussed in the other thread that got locked, none of us want Pay-To-Win mechanics. I haven't even gotten into pricing examples because I don't know what's best. I just want them to consider selling stuff that people are interested in, for prices that don't immediately push away a large number of buyers.

Nobody feels threatened by your posts. We don't actually know what has kept this game afloat, we don't have the internal breakdown. I'd guess that bag bundles for a new TLP server make them more money than Veblen/FOMO items, and they aren't rare at all. But I'm just guessing like you are.

If the costs and availability stay the same it doesn't affect me one bit. If they come down and rotate I may be more likely to consider a purchase. But I didn't wake up this morning thinking I had to come to the forums to defeat Senior Veblen in a word battle to the death so that I could have those precious pixels that have been denied to me for so long. In short, get over yourself. Make an argument or don't, and understand that even when others have the information you do, they may make a different assessment.

Would that status quo be offering your “status”’ items at a 25-50% discount within the first 9 months of their release? Or do we ignore that they already sell this stuff at a discount?

If Darkpaw introduces Pay-to-Win or begs for monetary pledges, this game is as good as done. They would've just telegraphed desperation: high likelihood of maintenance mode or sunset. Gaining Collector Edition items on the cheap will be the least of everyone's concern. I'd much rather suffer a little hit in the pocket now than total loss of this game in the near future.

I also want to add, Apple can only make so many phones, Coach so many purses, Ferrari so many... Ferrari's. They have to consider getting the most value out of every one they make. Digital goods can use the same principles if they have similar perceived value, but they aren't required to work that way.

If the cost to "make more" is a few values changing in a database, you can consider multiple avenues for pricing to maximize revenue.

In short, you can pay the current prices or not. No need to beg Darkpaw for cheap goods.

Please feel free to ignore me. It would save me the breath of trying to ward off your circular reasoning.

This is like the epitome of circular reasoning (non-position).

Not required -> multiple avenues -> not required -> multiple avenues.

1) They already sell the stuff at discount during its lifecycle.
2) Not everyone that plays today, played in the previous expansions and it’s in DPGs best interests to sell to those people while they are here.
3) You can bring back the old collectors for the TLPs, but that is niche within a niche. So, it’s best to compensate by using the sale prices because Live customers are already buying the current expansion.
4) The business model with MMOs historically has always been taking a little bit of money from the most people not the most money from the smallest group of people.