Why not Zerkers/Beastlords at TLP launches?

With Mischief coming soon this has been on my mind again lately. I love Agnarr however I also love berserkers. I do not see why they couldn't be added to the launch of a TLP server. Same with beastlords. They are balanced in era. There is nothing about a zerker that would make them OP at classic. The only hangup I could see would be epic 1.0's, where the Beastlord needs Luclin to complete theirs. Zerkers need Stonebrunt, not sure if that is Kunark or not. Other then that, I think Berserkers and Beastlords would fit nicely into the launch of a TLP.

WHY NOT?!

I suspect because coding such a change is non-trivial, and would siphon resources away from other things. Basically, the payoff is far too low for the amount of effort it would take.

because those expansions are not out yet? are you not understanding how EQ works?

This again? Why not go back and read one of the previous times this was asked.

Then you won't main change when they become available and purchase krono to sell to equip them and buy xp pots.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Zerker 1.0 requires the Stonebrunt Mountains zone which is opened with Velious on TLP

Because the devs wish to keep races/classes & combinations locked to their respective expansions, separating them out is either something they do not want to do for ideological reasons, or for workload reasons - that may well change at some point in the future, but it might not.

The only way that we will get Berserkers on a TLP at launch is if it has everything up to & including Gates of Discord unlocked from the start or it uses the "Level Locked Progression" many forum users have suggested.
My suggested take on those two you can read here - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/the-next-tlp.273180/#post-3998866

More info here:

Race: Iksar - Kunark
Race: Vah Shir - Luclin
Race: Frogloks - Legacy of Ykesha
Race: Drakkin - The Serpent's Spine

Class: Beastlord - Luclin
Class: Berserker - Gates of Discord

Race/Class Combo: Gnome Shadowknights, Gnome Paladins - Luclin
Race/Class Combo: Halfling Rangers, Halfling Paladins - Luclin
Race/Class Combo: Wood Elf Beastlords and Froglok Monks - Call of the Forsaken


Good list here of when TLP get various things:
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:Progression_Servers

Selos started with BL.... but that is because it opened with up through Luclin unlocked.

The only way you’re getting Zerkers at launch would be if they opened a TLP at GoD.

It would be nice if they invested a bit to enabled all classes to be playable at a TLP launch; but they would need to revisit either (1) how to enable a class but not that expansions content or (2) enable core class NPC outside of an expansion to allow things like spell NPC and trainers to spawn in zones available at classic.

I’m also not sure if itemization becomes becomes an issue such that there’s some non-dynamic code that restricts out of era classes from equipping prior era equipment - and if there is; that could be a huge undertaking to correct.

I’d personally like to see them unlock zones by level in a TLP and not by expansion. But that’s a pipe dream much like FV rules on TLP was for over a decade. An example would be Kunark zones up to L50 are unlocked at TLP launch such that only certain zones are not accessible at level 50 (such as Seb, Chardok, HS). The code existed to lock zone access by level in POP so I don’t think it’s overly difficult to apply it more broadly to make the TLP world much “bigger” at launch.

Basically, the technical limitations are trivial. That isn't the reason. They just don't want to do it, so its a non-starter from their side. I'm pretty sure I pissed off a couple people over the years pushing for this.

Its a shame, not being able to enjoy the launch of a TLP or those first fun months. I was debating starting as a monk and doing the hand-me-down thing but honestly, I don't like being a monk so I'll probably just sit on my hands again until luclin, try to start then, be way behind and get bored and quit again long before I hit 60.

Heck this time I don't even have a ton of DBC saved so no xp pots for me.. making getting to raid level before pop lands even less likely. ahh well sounded like a fun server but I think over this post I just talked myself out of it again...

Funny that it actually required REMOVING the Gnome SK/PAL and Halfling Ranger/Pal options from Ragefire post launch... more coding involved with removing the class combos than it did in keeping them in... they were in by default.

IF you really think they start new TLP servers without a full, up-to-date Live version of the installed game on that server, I have some news for you...

To each their own and all that, but you are telling us that you can't find even one other class you would enjoy playing until Luclin drops? Try something different, you can use it to farm/collect gear for your eventual Beastlord. Honestly, I've barely played a Beastlord and never played a Berserker at all, and I've played almost every other class to some reasonable level. They all have fun aspects to them.

Not gonna tell you what to like, but I think there's probably at least one other class out there you would like, waiting to be discovered.

I do recall the race/class combinations you mention here on Ragefire being disabled post launch, I was playing there at the time. But I was just giving the current information rather than outdated info.

The code-base is the same on all servers but they clearly wanted to have the class/race & class/race combinations follow a timeline, the Ragefire changes brought that in line.

I would love to play a Berserker on a TLP that started in Classic myself but sadly the way the devs envision things appears to preclude that on all but a GoD unlocked server or the LLP idea.

When GoD unlocked on Phinigel there was a lot of players in the guild I was in who had played since classic that thought swapping to Berserker was a great idea, when they realised the effort involved in catching up most who tried it gave up long before their Berserker was close to raid ready, like only 3 out of 15 actually made it & played Berserker for a decent amount of time.

I only started on the server with the express intention of playing Berserker to begin with so had the guild refused me I would have just gone elsewhere, the fact that the guild leadership knew me & knew I played the class well on live gave me some leverage, had I been playing something else prior to that, even with the expressed intention of swapping later, I still think it would have been contentious, if not with the leadership then with the other players, there was quite some crying about "people flopping to the FoTM class".

In my case the slow XP of Phinigel Pre-GoD really put me off playing a non-Berserker but if the XP had been better I'm still not sure I would have stuck it out not playing my favourite class.

I've played them all. I basically have 2 alternatives that I kind-of like, Mage (basically the only other class i like. I played one in the original classic->luclin. Made a bst on day one and never wanted to go back) and monk (which just feels like half a class compared to the bst).

The long and short of it is this, I ADORE pet classes and I really really love melee combat in EQ. Beyond that I like to have buffs and debuffs to sling to help my group out. I'm not joking when I say I think the dev's ripped the bst class out of my brain as its literally the perfect class for me.

I'll also give a tiny shout out to rangers here, there my 4th choice and share a lot in common with the bst. They're just missing the pet.

I mained a monk until luclin on Phinny.. I did not, in general, enjoy the experience but its the one class I can collect raid drops with for my bst that basically all will be usable. So if I do come here, I have to do this.. again. I'd prefer the mage but .. its not ideal gear wise.

one other note: I have a sort-a special consideration too. Whatever guild I raid with has to use my dkp system / bid bot or something basically the same (which.. I'm guessing still isn't common) So I almost have to start in classic as something if I decide to raid.

I still haven't seen a good reason not to have them added at the start of a TLP. I mean every single damn tlp has had out of era stuff all over the place. Beastlords were in classic during the discord server which was classic zones only so it can't be that hard to implement.

We had better luck on mangler, our more casual guild had 5 people roll zerker for GoD, 4 of them made it to 70 with 400-500 AA's by the first raid sunday night. Tradeskills and PoP charms are the biggest losses that suck to do over. Which don't get me wrong, I really think zerkers and beastlords should be in classic, I hate seeing those class only armor drops in the planes for no damn reason.

On one hand, I could see letting the classes be available early since 3/4 races would be able to use them (Dwarf/Barbarian/Ogre/Troll for Zerker and Barb/Ogre/Troll for Beastlord).

On the other hand, wouldn't having Monk and Zerker both early cause Melee dps to be much more preferable than Spell dps overall, least during raids/hard-to-pull dungeons?

I played a Wizzy to 50 in classic and really didn't have a good time getting groups usually with JUST Monk out of the two lol.

They stopped them dropping before the classes unlock their expansions, now BST gear only appears once Luclin unlocks & BER when GoD unlocks.

I guess that there may at one point have been a chance of those 2 classes appearing in classic but not any more.

I think no.
With the innate damage AA changes Monks are already far stronger than Berserkers & Rogues for a large number of expansions on TLP, with Rogues & Berserkers steadily closing the gap & eventually catching up around VoA/RoF.
There's no reason to think Berserkers are anything other than much weaker than Monks prior to Gates either.

Wizard issues are unconnected to Berserkers, early on they are mostly due to horrible resist checks & mana issues/cast times - indeed the whole resist system is badly in need of a rework imho - everyone of every dps class arguably suffers being passed over for groups due to Monk being overpowered on TLP, only thing that helps is good guilds don't over-stuff with them.

And folks could race change later if they wanted to.

Unsure if you've done classic raiding, but spell dps already blows in places like Sky, thanks to resists. For grouping, as long as things die, no one cares.

Yeah, I raided Naggy/Vox, Hate/Sky, etc all in-era with the guild I was with. Spell DPS absolutely was in an unfortunate place in Sky in particular lol. Hate and the other two were hit or miss.

As for the other point, yeah that's more or less what I mean. Cats and Lizards would eventually be available so it seems unnecessary to expac lock the classes on account of more than half of the races being available. I do kind of think it would be fun to experience early-game group content and the classic/velious raids with Zeker available though xD

LOL technical limitations are never trivial in games this old with so much stuff built on top of other stuff. It would also likely require a buttload of balancing and changes.