Any word on necro 1-65 dot revamp?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Montag, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. Triconix Augur

    [IMG]
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  2. Ythera Augur


    You're incorrect; read it again. He stated only the first step of doubling the first dot in the line's damage would not necessarily be done for every class.

    Then you assume that applies to the rest of the steps without evidence.
  3. Triconix Augur

    Uh, no. If they aren't going to start with the first line of the spell, it's quite obvious they aren't going to do entire dot line revamps. You cannot do an entire dot revamp if you aren't starting at the first spell of the line. That's just basic reading comprehension. If they aren't starting at 1, they are starting somewhere else. They NEVER specified where though. After the revamps took place it's obvious they decided 70+ was their starting place for the necro class.

    Also, if you just understood the whole post and the intent of the post - debuff limits causing issues in raids being a main focus in the post - you would know Aristo is referencing live content. The whole intent of this revamp was to "fix" an ongoing issue with live raids. A situation that never occurs pre-POP. Going back further was just an added benefit to dot classes because they decided the solution was to merge dot lines. This revamp was never intended to be an arbitrary consolidation and boost to lower level dots. The revamp was always intended to resolve a major live-content raiding issue.
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  4. Ythera Augur

    That's great that you want to have this opinion without evidence; but the information is stated very clearly there. The first dot of the line got increased for beastlords because they weren't where he wanted them to be damage-wise. That step, specifically, was not necessarily to be applied to the other classes, as evidenced by this statement:

    "1. We went back to the first DoT in any given line, and doubled it (or more). This step may not happen for every class, but Beastlords in particular haven't been able to use DoTs for as much reliable damage as we'd like, so they needed the boost."

    So, your entire argument that he said that the revamp wouldn't happen for the spells of the other classes in full is based around misreading this one line and thinking that it applies to the other steps of the revamp, when it in fact, just says 'this step'.
  5. Hadesborne Augur

    Notice the lines I put in BOLD

    Also they SPECIFICALLY mention the fact they they want DoT classes to do more Damage and Ramp the damage up faster. I mean this wasn't me man. I am just reponding to what was originally posted(promised).
  6. Ythera Augur

    The over the next few months part is funny.
  7. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Zero Mention of doing 1-70 dots or indeed any other specific range of spells for all classes or even just for Necromancers there, it was intentionally short on absolute specifics on that, Beastlord getting theirs done for the much earlier spells was clearly an exception justified by the perceived weaknesses of the class.

    Therefore "What we were Promised" as you put it multiple times is still a complete fabrication.
  8. Hadesborne Augur

    They showed precident by revamping every other class's dots. So by NOT mentioning that they weren't going to revamp necro 1-70 dots (and SK's by extention). The precidence stands as the norm.
  9. Metanis Bad Company

    Every time I see this thread I think to myself, is that necro running south to Mobile or is he stuck up north in Gary?
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    That's why assuming things gets you in trouble.
  11. Triconix Augur

    And they made it very clear that bsts are probably going to be an exception to the rule because they felt bst dot power was comparatively too weak to other classes of similar nature, and never intended to be the precedent for all classes. So what does that mean? Dot revamps won't begin at level 1 for other classes because their damage isn't unreliable. I'm not sure what you are getting at. It's pretty clear with just a little bit of mental fortitude.

    Also, if you understood the zeitgeist of the post, you'll understand that they very clearly indicate the upcoming revamps are directed specifically to the ongoing issue with live raid debuff limits. Classes like druid, bsts, rangers, bards, etc couldn't even think of casting their dots because necros required them. And even then, having more than 2-3 necros in your raid was very detrimental for overall raid dps. This is evidenced by the prologue specifically speaking about the ongoing problem with debuff limits.

    Except I'm not misreading. You're simply not comprehending the historical background and how it relates to the entire reason why revamps were taking place. Because, whether you want to admit it or not, extensively speaking about debuff limits and how it effects raids indirectly specifies why they are taking these actions were taking place and why full revamp was never intended. It was just convenient resultant of fixing another unrelated issue.
    So the mystery post is the one I posted that disproved your so-called precedent of entire dot revamps? Lol, thank you for the assist, I guess.

    This post very clearly states that this [revamp] is to help alleviate the ever increasing debuff limit issues on live raids. The portion you made bold "in order to improve the way this works" is directly referencing the limitation of the current model of dots IE stacking multiple dots of the same line for maximum dps but having a severe limitation on the debuff count on mobs. The increase to damage is nothing more than a bonus perk of a solution that was fixing a completely different issue. Their intent wasn't to increase damage, shorten ramp up times, and "fix" some QOL issue of the necro class (as you previously alluded to while complaining about having to swap spell sets and develop carpel tunnel). Their intent was to solve a problem that dot functionality was causing - debuff limitations being hit far too often. This issue isn't found in earlier expansions, so why would you expect them? Again, it's just one of the many consequences of the solution they came up with to fix a completely different problem.

    It also never states dot revamps will begin at level 1 for all classes. That is, yet again, your personal fabrication. It actually goes so far to say bsts getting revamps at level 1 and up is more than likely an exception to the normal revamps that will take place so I'm not sure why you would assume they would do it for all classes. Assume makes you something something something.
  12. Hadesborne Augur

    They started revamping every class dot's from lvl 1+. I mean i don't know what this means to you but to me, actions speak louder than words.

    Here is the QUOTE that refutes your inability to understand.
    "We're planning to make this SAME transition for all classes that use DoTs over the next few months."

    I don't understand how I can make it clearer to you. They SAID they would do the same process they did for the beastlord to ALL classes that use DoTs regularly. That is in addition THEIR ACTIONS, where they actually went through and revamped every other class's dots from lvl 1+ (except necros). They never said they were finished with this process did they??? How do you like eating your own words? Asking when they will complete the process is a valid request and we don't need some NON-NECRO nay-sayer to try to shout it down.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    You are "cherry-picking" your quotes out-of-context and ignoring other parts that are 100% relevant.

    I don't know how your selective myopia happens but you are ignoring vital information in order to bolster your argument.


    Here is why you are wrong, once again for the people in the back row who forgot to bring their prescription glasses:

  14. Ythera Augur

    Now, you are cherry picking, Wakk. That quote you picked out only refers to the step of doubling the damage of the first dot in the line for beastlords to up their damage significantly to make them competitive. It doesn't refer to the rest of the steps of combining damage and making them not stack.

    Here are the 4 steps Aristo said would apply to the dot revamp, only the first step of significantly increasing the first dot in the line has the disclaimer that it wouldn't necessarily be applied to the other classes.

    "1. We went back to the first DoT in any given line, and doubled it (or more). This step may not happen for every class, but Beastlords in particular haven't been able to use DoTs for as much reliable damage as we'd like, so they needed the boost.
    2. We looked at updates to those lines and increased their damage in a much more aggressive scale than we used to. This should mean that a new DoT will perform better than itself plus two previous levels of the same spell under the old scale.
    3. We increased damage/mana efficiency over the entire line in a progressive manner. At each level you should be getting more damage per mana than before.
    4. We categorized the new DoTs into lines which will prevent the same player from stacking multiple levels of the same DoT line on the same target. Other players can use DoTs in the same line on the same target, and the same player can use DoTs in the same line on different targets. The increase in damage should mean that a single player is dealing more damage with one DoT than they formerly did with three spells."

    Step 2 is the step where the dots are upgraded to do damage equal to about itself + 2 of the previous line and then step 4 is the step where the dots are prevented from stacking with its own line.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/march-2016-patch-preview.231275/#post-3407873
  15. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    Aristo said:
    may not happen for every class

    So you're saying there's a chance! :)

    Sorry, could not resist. If only the devs would post more often for us to parse, everything could be so clear. :rolleyes:

    Based on how the DoT revamps have gone, and many other game developments/issues/fixes/expansion releases, it is interesting anyone would claim they know the intended state. Especially since they did not achieve their own stated goal.

    They appear to be reassessing how they decide what to work on which is a step in the right direction. It would be a bit nuts if a necro DoT revamp from 1 to 65 was on any current roadmap considering the current overall state of the game.
  16. Lortl Journeyman

    I played a raid necro from Classic through GoD with the BiS and all available clickies. It was extremely involved (which I loved). I wouldn't change anything until PoP.

    If there was actual interest in making the game better, it would be possible for all DPS classes to top charts based on player performance/gear. But, that would require a ton of tuning and it's just not possible for a game this old that likely has a very limited staff.

    Classic as a necro is amazing. Kunark is when you really shine. Velious is obviously where you peak and start to decline. SoL you can sort of keep up but it starts requiring a lot more luck because of resists. After that, it's basically over. You're doing a ton of work to do 3/4s or half the damage of rangers/monks/wizards. There is no way to change that. However, you have been provided a lot of utility to assist with certain encounters and smart necros can use these to their raids advantage.

    Grouping as a necro is horrendous in PoP forward.

    I don't know if there is anything a DoT revamp would do to change the reality of DoTs not scaling in damage the way weapons do for phsyical DPS classes.

    -Kupek
  17. Sorrows New Member

    The 1-70 game is a drop in the bucket compared to how much content there is actually out there.

    Necros are dps gods from 1-115.

    If you are unhappy with lower level necro damage the answer is player skill level. Do better.

    Edit: As for grouping, I LOVE playing my necro in group and frankly I never bother with the swift spells, ever. Big pyre, main magic dot, skelly swarm and if 2 or more mobs drop an orb. There you go. Group dps monster necro rotation in a nutshell. Make ample use of death bloom and blood magic. Use your mount. When out of mana...sit out 1-2 fights to med to full.
  18. Kiaro Augur

    The best solution to this, would be to introduce a line of "fast DoTs" (Like they have in the 66+ ranges)
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    You're choosing to cherry pick only the second part of that sentence - the doubling of damage, not the went back to the first dot in the line part which is what Hadesborne is arguing should be applied to every class.

    Woeful & deliberately poor use of logic.

    You are almost wilfully not following the flow & context of the exchanges taking place.

    Hadesborne has argued that Necromancers were "promised" their entire DoT line-up would be revamped, he says this with no supporting evidence then claims it is inferred by what Aristo said - neither thing is evident.

    He chose to cherry pick a statement to support his argument - I cherry-picked in response to illustrate the exact methodology he used to "prove" his argument to also "prove" he was wrong - i.e. if he wants to use stupid logic so can I.

    At no point was it stated 1-70 or any other range of DoTs would be getting a revamp or not.
    The developer gave a somewhat vague statement about the plan and Hadesborne made severely erroneous assumptions - if you still aren't following maybe you should go re-read the whole thread instead of picking up midway.

    Consider me no longer engaging in this debate, splitting hairs like this any further is unproductive, if Hadesborne wants to concoct stupid unproven arguments from this point onwards he can do so without my interjection, I've wasted enough time pointing out his faulty logic & BS assumptions already and I'm not going to continue to engage with yours either.

    Have a nice day both - :D
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  20. Triconix Augur

    The lack of reading comprehension and retention is strong with you.

    "We're planning to make this same transition" literally means they are going to follow the same process. That says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the starting point for all classes. If anything, they make it clear the starting point will not be the same for all classes and explained that bsts were a special use case when in bullet 1 they said: "MAY NOT HAPPEN FOR EVERY CLASS".

    They only reason why they did it for bsts at the time was because they felt their dots were very weak the entire time and they needed a boost. You simply cannot assume they would do that for necros because necro dots were never weak. During the revamps they decided who would have a starting point of level 1 and who would not. They never promised anything for necros. It's quite obvious now in hindsight they felt the necro dots were strong enough that they didn't need to go back all the way to do their revamp which, in case you forgot, was intended to fix the debuff limits. The revamps were never meant as a power increase to DOT classes. It just so happened one of the secondary resultants of their fix increased the power levels of dots.

    I apologize that you simply cannot grasp basic English. You need to be able to read and understand the meaning of the entire statement. You cannot simply pluck half a sentence out of a paragraph and use it as evidence. That's simply falsifying and manipulating the words of the original post.
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