Incoming Proc Rate Changes For Casters

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Cragzop, Feb 11, 2021.

  1. RPoo Augur

    Unless there's stupid painful wild ramp or another reason specifically why you should not be close to the mob (IE spread out to avoid silence) then yes there is no reason not to turn on attack for more dps procs.
  2. Yueyenie Lorekeeper

    So we should be using the 2hd setup for the most dsp and procs, not the one hander setup I have linked with the increased damage and mana procs? I'm very green so I'm just trying to understand.

    One more question is someone can take time to go over the burns and weaves with me, it would be very helpful. Its this the proper full burn weave?
    Confluence, Claw of Sontalak III, Brand III, Flashbrand III

    If someone can help me twink these weaves out I'd be most grateful. My current setup is this: Don't laugh because I put most of this together myself.

    Current main spell weave:
    --- Stormjolt Vortex
    --- Claw of Gozzrem
    --- Flashbrand
    --- Ethereal Confluence
    --- Ethereal Brand

    ==============================
    Main Burn Phase
    (Spire Arcanum)
    (Frenzied Devastation)
    (Improved Twincast)
    (Arcane Fury)
    (Fury of Gods)

    Spell Weave
    -- Ethereal Confluence
    -- Ethereal Brand
    -- Restless Ice Comet

    ===============================
    Second Burn Phase
    (Arcane Destruction)
    (Focus Arcanum)
    (Intensity of Resolute)

    Spell Weave starting with:
    -- Musing Gambit
    -- Twincast

    -- continuing weave after (Starting Weave)
    --- Stormjolt Vortex
    --- Claw of Gozzrem
    --- Flashbrand
    --- Ethereal Confluence
    --- Ethereal Brand
    --- also adding Musing Gambit in, anytime it refreshes

    ========================================
    Third Burn Phase or Emergency Mana Recovery
    -- Musing Gambit if up
    (Rod of Dark Rites)
    (Bifold Focus of the Evil Eye)
    -- Claw of Gozzrem (Hoping for twincast proc)

    -- continuing weave after (Claw of Gozzrem)
    --- Stormjolt Vortex
    --- Claw of Gozzrem
    --- Flashbrand
    --- Ethereal Confluence
    --- Ethereal Brand
    --- also adding Musing Gambit in, anytime it refreshes

    Somewheres I read not to use
    -- Composite Fire (was garbage)

    Any help tuning this up for a returning Wizard would be appreciated.
  3. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    I would agree with RPoo, but you really need to know your raid force, ae healing, how good your druids are at multi-tasking (assuming druids are your caster group healers) and of course the events themselves. Also, if you aren't regularly getting NPT from your enchanters, there's really a drop off in what you can do via melee (and other melee buffs as well).

    For a number of raid forces below top tier, not having the extra damage from wild rampage plus the loss of druid dps > your melee procs (cause ... caster melee actually blows goats and other small farm animals).

    As far as 2h vs 1h ... can you 2h on events without running out of mana? If so, 2h always. If not, make sure you are using robe clicks, mana return spells and aas, rods, etc. ... and then I'd make sure I had my spec augs from CotF in (especially wizards ... we need only evo). If you are still hurting for mana, then 1h by all means.

    But you should do everything in your power to 2h first, before settling for 1h and book. The 2h proc is just better.

    The only time that might change is in a fast group who plans to go for a long time, but that's pretty rare I think.
    RPoo likes this.
  4. Yueyenie Lorekeeper

    Also I though we had to use

    -- Stormjolt Vortex to proc our Evoker's Synergy
  5. kizant Augur

    The new one is Thaumaturgic Vortex. Include it in your burn weave once you max synergy. And use Sontalak not the ice claw.

    Composite is ok if you don't have fury of the gods/arcane fury going and you're not twincasting and as long as you have a decent crit rate/crit damage mod going on like greater wolf. It'll at least do better than any instant nuke. Try to match it up with mage synergy if you can. The spell gets worse every expansion but it's still usable sometimes.
    Yinla likes this.
  6. Cragzop Cranky Wizard


    All my opinion below. There are some wizards who differ.

    Base rotation should be:
    Ethereal Confluence
    Claw of Sontalak (I have no idea why people use other claws)
    Ethereal Brand

    ...and then you have a few choices...

    Personally, I'd recommend:
    Thaumaturgic Vortex (new in CoV assuming you bumped synergy and focus lines, otherwise stay with the lower version)
    Flashbrand/Scorching Beam (Beam if 2+ targets, Flash if one)

    Generally, Restless Ice Comet during ITC in place of Claw because your TC procs will just get blocked. During normal TC, I go back to normal rotation because extending the TC >>> anything else.

    [Kizant covered Composite ... personally, I never use, but I agree with what he said]

    For raid burns, if your raid force lacks rangers ... so you're not getting 6m of Auspice at the start of constant fights ... then breaking up AD and FD might be better for you. But it general, I prefer to stack AD and FD to extend the FD as long as possible (counters are taken off AD first and then when gone, FD counters are used).

    Arcanum should be used at the start (no reason to hold it back).

    Glyph of Destruction can be used during the main burn...boosts crit damage by 60% even if you don't care about the crit chance add.

    Since Intensity isn't an every fight thing, I try to use it the first time that my crit level drops back to base assuming the remaining fight time is at least 45 sec.

    For twincasting ...technically with bifold, you should be hitting bifold before the start (the 1 proc buff lasts 30s) ... spin up burns ... twincast spell ... start your rotation ... when bifold proc and TC run out (assuming you didn't get a refresh), then ITC. This way, the refresh timers on bifold and TC start that much earlier.

    I'm not going to lie, you actually need to be able to focus to get all the right and not lose time under burns ... so it might be simpler to start bifold + ITC, then use TC. But starting with the spell is better.

    Force rejuvenation should be used as early as possible. I generally TRY to use it after the first EC and EB to be able to get those again right away.

    Gambit when you can and try to sneak it in before event goes live.

    IMO, unless there is a specific raid reason not to, everything gets used on refresh (I will use FD again without AD since FD is 12m while AD is 15m ... and IoG is 12m...). I might hold AD until a better time presents itself if there's not one when it refreshes. Since we move faster than 20m between events, I will not use either Fury (20m recast) unless I get 2m out of each OR the next event does not start with a burn.

    So ... assuming raid ... and assuming normal caster group with druid and enchanter, you want to make sure GW is cast whenever up and your enchanters are spire-ing as much as possible and using their composite. GW and spires are on a 7m 30s timer so your self spire should be pretty locked into GW always. If for whatever reason the main burn is delayed, I will still want GW, self spire, enchanter spire from the top (assuming I'm able to chain cast).

    Wizards are pretty simple IMO (you can make a flowchart that covers 99% of it in a good raid force) but there are just enough things that you have to hand cast (and especially with lag) that not having focus can really screw you over. It's not a class where you can watch a Netflix movie on one screen and mash a few buttons and expect to be at the top of your game.
    Ezbro likes this.
  7. Yueyenie Lorekeeper

    Oh man, thanks Kizant and Cragzop for helping me out here. My mistake on Stormjolt Vortex it was still in my old saved spell set. I m using the Thaumaturgic one. Currently I'm maxed AA, and I do have the CoTF aug. I'm not having a mana issue, but in the event of a battle rez, Im using mage rods and the 3rd burn setup if available and the mana aug procs to recover my mana to around 30%. But I do sometimes click Bifold early on and modify my spell line manually if needed. For claw of Gozzrem, I was using for 2 reasons. To proc the Evoker's Synergy which you need a non fire nuke for and for the 50k ice proc from our familiars. Second I also play PvP too, but thats for another time. I realize this might only be suited for normal grouping now as apposed to raiding and making the switch immediately. Just a quit recap on what your suggesting here Cragzog.

    Current main spell weave:
    --- Ethereal Confluence
    --- Claw of Sontalak
    --- Ethereal Brand
    --- Thaumaturgic Vortex
    --- Flashbrand (at the end of the weave)

    ==============================
    Pre-Burn Phase
    (Spire Arcanum)
    (Arcane Destruction)
    (Frenzied Devastation)
    (Focus Arcanum)
    (Bifold Focus of the Evil Eye)
    --- Claw of Sontalak
    --- (Spell Weave Set below while twincasting)
    --- Twincast (After twincasts stop)
    --- (Spell Weave Set below while twincasting)
    ==============================

    Main Burn Phase
    (Improved Twincast)
    (Glyph of Destruction)
    (Arcane Fury)
    (Fury of Gods)

    Spell Weave
    -- Ethereal Confluence
    -- Restless Ice Comet
    -- Ethereal Brand
    -- Thaumaturgic (Add this in)
    -- Flashbrand (Add this in)

    ===============================

    Second Burn Phase
    -- Musing Gambit if up
    (Rod of Dark Rites)
    (Bifold Focus of the Evil Eye) if up
    --- Claw of Sontalak
    --- (Spell Weave Set below while twincasting)
    --- Twincast (After twincasts stop)
    --- (Spell Weave Set below while twincasting)

    -- continuing weave after (Starting Weave Above)
    --- Ethereal Confluence
    --- Claw of Sontalak
    --- Ethereal Brand
    --- Thaumaturgic Vortex
    --- Flashbrand (at the end of the weave)
    --- also adding Musing Gambit in, anytime it refreshes

    Everything gets used on refresh
    Druid in group cast (GW)
    -- Does Druids need to be in group for this, and what is GW?
    Enchanter in group casting Spires
    Bard in group
    Ranger MBG Auspice

    Would that be a good summery of what your saying to change up?
    I'm also Assuming Type 5 Augs we going with are all Heroic Agility?

    One main reason I had everything split up the other as far as breaking up AD and FD, and forming two separate Burn Phases to increase sustained burns was I was under the impression that having all of that up at the same time, was causing our crits to go over the crit cap making them pointless and much more effective to split them up since we were already getting 100% proc from our innate crit proc, FD and Auspice. But I could be wrong, and will fix it if need be. Thanks.
  8. Cragzop Cranky Wizard


    Synergy proc will fire from your procs (at least for now). So there is zero reason to use non-fire in your lineup over fire spells with the cold procs from weapon and augs from ToV/CoV. (at least for PvE)

    Spread the word.

    As far as the other questions ...

    ... GW is the (relatively) new combo black wolf plus white wolf aa that druids got changed a bit ago. And yes, group with druid only.

    So the AD/FD combo is purely so that you get 25 more counters of FD and it's 90 percent add to crit damage (since the AD counters are used first when both are on you). If you are full raid burning with druid and enchanter at least, your increase to critical damage is at the highest, especially if under Glyph as well. So stretching out the length of FD so the peak is as long as possible (remember the Fury aas are 4m in length) is greater than the 25 counters on AD separately to get 100 percent crit rate at some other time.

    If your raid force is struggling to provide you with outside adps (auspice, iog or even druid GW), then you might think differently.

    The best thing to do would be .. try it out on a raid you've got down (so the parses are comparable week to week) and compare.
  9. Fabulous_Povar New Member

    This is how I set up.

    for sustained I think you would see gains with this weave order instead:
    --- vortex
    --- flashbrand
    --- confluence
    --- claw
    --- brand

    Kizant's suggestion about adding vortex is spot on, the burn itc weave should look like this:
    --- vortex
    --- confluence
    --- brand
    --- comet
  10. Fabulous_Povar New Member

    This is how I set up.

    for sustained I think you would see gains with this weave order instead:
    --- vortex
    --- flashbrand
    --- confluence
    --- claw
    --- brand

    Kizant's suggestion about adding vortex is spot on, the burn itc weave should look like this:
    --- vortex
    --- confluence
    --- brand
    --- comet
    kizant likes this.
  11. Mongol311 A really bad wiz

    Almost exactly the same weave I've been using, except I swap Claw and Flashbrand positions for sustained.
  12. Tucoh Augur

    DPG should massively decrease the amount of procs and swarm pets in the game. And buff wizard DPS until they are the uncontested kings of burst ranged DPS.
    Igniz and Mongol311 like this.
  13. Igniz Augur

    Hands off my Swarmpets! The rest is true though - wizards NEED some (much) love.
    Ezbro likes this.
  14. Ezbro Elder

    Simplify, and boost the basics!