Any word on necro 1-65 dot revamp?

If we're talking about just their ability to do sustained dps in a raid setting I'd probably rank them closer to 6th in Luclin.

For a combined parse in ssra that dps is not terribly low. I just looked at my last combined ssra and it shows 2600 dps (all trash+bosses, leaving out the offtanked emp mobs). For comparison we are around 5000+ dps on combined vt parse. There are a lot of factors that slow down dps in ssra by comparison.

/GU Combined: SSRA in 4408s, 11578k @2626.
/GU Combined: Vex Thal in 10423s, 51508k @4941

On the other hand, I suspect necro benefits greatly from taking 6196s for ssra clear vs our 4408, or 1827 raid dps vs 2626. I know our necros don't ever parse anywhere close to 115 dps on ssra. Maybe it's possible to parse that high on our raids and our necros just don't for whatever reason, but I will believe it when I see it. We do have necros hit that kind of dps number on combined in VT, but they aren't making top 10 there with 115 dps.

That goes back to what I side about all the things that go into a parse. A combined parse of all trash + bosses is a "bigger dataset", but it's not necessarily a better dataset. Trash weights some classes better than others, and different pull styles and raid sizes also still factor in quite a bit. Back on Agnarr we would AE pull VT nonstop chain pulls with a 72 man raid, and while the Wizards parsed really high in that, Bards did too, but in many other situations a Bard just can't parse high because of the class design. So comparing one guild's trash clear to another can again, produce different results. Some guilds are more aggressive at pulling tons of mobs, some aren't. Some of that is raid leaders/pullers that aren't aggressive enough, but it can also be a guild running a lower number raid as well.

I'm guessing you haven't played very deep into the expansion list recently. Bards absolutely blow up the parse currently in some of the later expansions, because devs changed their class design.

For what it's worth, the parses I posted are pretty aggressive on pulling. In VT, typically 5-10 mobs in camp at any given time, no mezzes, lots of AE. Mobs still die on average in less than a minute, which isn't great for necros, but is great for wizards and bards. But even better for melee that never let up for 3 hours.

This is why you take a full expansion combined to determine high dps classes. Multiple parses over the course of the clear of the entire expansion. If you just took aoe trash clears from VT bards might look like a top tier dps class, but we know they are not.

I do agree that different situations will show different results, but all things being equal, meaning the correct support for the correct classes, rangers/wizards should be tops in this expansion.

I would never include a Trash combined parse when comparing a necro to other DPS classes because that would make the necro look REALLY bad. The necro kit isn't very good for trash clears ( the main reason why necros aren't as good in the group game - mobs die too fast and necros have a longer ramp-up time on their dots stacking). IF you are comparing raid DPS, then it is usually Boss only parses. Most good necros are sitting around 200 - 260ish DPS on raid bosses. Wizards are hitting 280-310 DPS right now consistently. Rangers are sitting around the 230- 280 DPS mark currently. Monks are somewhere around the 180 - 220 mark currently.

The problem arrises in PoP when all other clesses get DPS increases and the necromancer doesn't. The main reason that necros didnt get their DoT crit AA until GoD ws that previously Necros were sitting alone atop the DPS charts in late Luclin and PoP. Even a trueshot ranger couldn't touch a good necro on most mobs, the ranger would get close, but the necro was usually on top. So they felt (THEN) that the necromancer was in a fine place already (being atop the raid DPS charts) and didn't need the AA damage increases. Today that is a much different story.

Also, FYI they actually DID say they would go thru ALL the main DoT classes and revamp their entire DoT line around 5 years ago (Feb 2016). Just to let you know how long it has been since they said they would get that done.

Rangers, Wizards, Monks and Rogues based on our current expansion clear. All four roughly in the same ballpark. My rogue alt does surprisingly well over the very long haul you suggested, despite no luclin weapons and not a single point of +atk.

The trash combined parse is the ONLY parse that matters in a four hour VT clear. I don't care who can blow up the parse on the bosses, if you aren't contributing the other 90% of the raid, you aren't contributing.

And they have now completed that revamp. The revamp was never aimed at the TLP's, it was aimed at live, and the live necros got their turn.

Interesting that your rogue is keeping up with geared rangers wizards.

I agree! And, the geared rogue mains in our guild who do have the +atk gear and luclin weapons!

But now we're just in the category of me talking trash to my guildmates.

I'm going to assume it's a full trash + boss clear he posted. I don't think including trash outside of the top two floors is very beneficial in ssra. Too much running around and for those of us boxing we end up missing a bit more.

1850 DPS is low depending on what they were running. Split aggressively? That's fine. Also explains why the necro has a better shot at 1st with 115 dps. Full 72 mains? That's horrid. Full 72 mains+ boxes? That's very bad.

I parsed our last full ssra clear, but it's a wonky parse for two reasons. First, we are trying all sorts of strats trying to get AL to spawn. So most of the raid didn't help kill rhag 1. Second, I'm never in range for cursed cycle so I miss a bunch of dps there. I can tell you that we 3 split the whole thing, our raid probably had about 30 mains and 15 boxes, and I picked up 1857 dps for the full clear. I sustained 159 dps and that's on the low end for myself. Adding in cursed cycle I would imagine a couple of the wizards in our raid would have been on par with that.

The second place on that parse was a ranger @93 dps. I could sustain that in melee form.

Our last VT I sustained 225 for the full clear.

My experience has been rangers/wizards by a decent amount. Do your rangers use their mana?

As a Ranger in this expansion, I haven't not taken first on EMP, SERU, or Aten (outside the first one). I top blob1 most of the time but it can be close with the good wizards. There's generally 2 to 3 more bosses in VT that I will top, outside of that I'm top 5 on most fights. I've been top 3 on every combined VT and SSRA. 1st on probably 70% of the combined parses.

I'd say my gear is average.

On Phinny (TOV) I notice more if my bard is out of the fight than if my monk is. The bard isn't out DPSing the monk directly but the bard's ADPS is phenomenal.

Like I said that was from my guild's parser and thats what he collected over the entire raid trash + bosses. There is a chance he missed some damage due to him dying or being out of range.

Someone made the point that a necro couldn't hit the top of the combined parse and I just showed a parse proving it is possible.

I knew someone would come in here and try to shift the goal posts, claim my guild is bad or whatever, but its par for the course over 20+ years of playing this game.

Someone makes a claim, I prove it wrong, I get told I am bad.

Its funny how that works.

I made the claim that necro's aren't top tier dps. And you offered up someone else's parse of you doing mediocre sustained dps in SSRA, with little to no detail about the parse.

All that parse proves is what I was saying. Necro's are mediocre dps in this expansion.

I never enter into a discussion unwilling to have my mind changed. I'm basing my opinion on hours of parses from experienced necro's across numerous servers.
If you have evidence that a necro should parse better than say a ranger or wizard on a regular basis this expansion, the by all means present it. Stop being inflammatory and actually contribute something.

lol