Any word on necro 1-65 dot revamp?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Montag, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. Triconix Augur

    My signature says otherwise. As does the fact that there are more live players than TLP?

    Again, false. Live necros have enough lines of dots they still swap multiple sets. Please, learn the class.
  2. Hadesborne Augur

    Triconix did you even play back in classic - PoP on live, I think not.
  3. Triconix Augur

    Not sure how that helps other than to deflect, but yes, I played caster quest back in the day. Triconix was born dec 99 and has around 1,100 days played last I checked.

    Probably forgot more about the game than you've experienced ever.
  4. Hadesborne Augur

    Ok, Hadesborne was born March of '99. I (unlike you apparently) actually remember the DPS pecking order on raids back classic thru OOW. As soon as they unlocked stacking for dots betwen other necros, necros were the top DPS class on raids from mid Luclin thru to DoDH. The buff to other casters and major melee buff has had an adverse affect on necromancer damage (due to the damage over time nature). Shorter fights = less necro DPS = Necros having to try and stack more dots in the same period of time in order to even stay relevant (sometimes when they don't even have the time to do so in their rotation). The problem is some necros always talk about making sure the original class is preserved, well news flash every other class was adjusted during this era for more dps EXCEPT the necromancer (beyond the general spell damage increase across the board) . And so, you see necros working their butts off stacking 10-12 dots in Luclin and PoP/LdoN only to show up 5th to 10th on the parse behind competent wizards and rangers, when a necro who did that back in the day would crush all other classes. The juice was worth the squeeze back then. We didn't mind busting our tails on raids casting more spells than anyone else because the result was we showed up higher on the parses. Every other class had it's damage dots consolidated back to lvl 1, except the necromancer. So let's go back to the old status Quo, where necros were top DPS on raids thru DoDH. Oh and BTW there are plenty of Dots to stack even with the fire line consolidated.
  5. Glowerss Augur

    /GU Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra in 481s, 2540k @5279 | Wizard 113k@(249 in 453s) | Necromancer 110k@(245 in 450s)
    /GU Xerkizh The Creator in 456s, 1037k @2275 | Wizard 65457@(225 in 290s) | Wizard 62451@(216 in 289s) {X} | Necromancer 54407@(185 in 294s)
    /GU High Priest of Ssraeshza in 401s, 1218k @3037 | Wizard 65820@(213 in 309s) {X} | Necromancer 60985@(201 in 303s) |
    /GU Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra in 260s, 2458k @9452 | Wizard 70322@(289 in 243s) | Ranger 67229@(269 in 249s) | Necromancer 63426@(264 in 240s) {XL} | Wizard 62566@(266 in 235s) {X} | Wizard 62109@(257 in 241s) | Wizard 56057@(249 in 225s) | Necromancer 53589@(215 in 249s) | Necromancer 52505@(215 in 244s) {L} |

    Nobody seems to have told our Necromancers they were only allowed to parse 5th or lower ~_~

    Necros have been highly competitive thus far from Classic to Luclin. I forget how PoP went but so far I haven't seen any compelling reason to further buff necros by consolidating dots under 75
  6. Hadesborne Augur

    So no necro topped the parses like they used to. Nice Cherry pick btw

    Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra in 391s, 2.48M Damage @6.35K, 1. Wizard = 107.00K@296 in 361s, 2. Ranger = 100.61K@271 in 370s, 3. Wizard = 91.64K@262 in 349s, 4. Wizard = 87.52K@247 in 353s, 5. Wizard = 84.52K@230 in 367s, 6. Necromancer = 83.79K@232 in 360s

    Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra in 384s, 2.50M Damage @6.51K, 1. Wizard = 105.00K@289 in 363s, 2. Wizard = 84.40K@231 in 364s, 3. Wizard = 79.50K@221 in 359s, 4. Wizard = 79.10K@228 in 346s, 5. Wizard = 78.29K@213 in 366s, 6. Ranger = 75.66K@199 in 379s, 7. Necromancer = 74.22K@205 in 361s

    Kaas Thox Xi Ans Dyek in 195s, 1.55M Damage @7.93K, 1. Ranger = 67.42K@389 in 173s, 2. Wizard = 61.70K@331 in 186s, 3. Ranger = 56.80K@303 in 187s, 4. Wizard = 55.58K@338 in 164s, 5. Shadowknight = 51.53K@330 in 156s {H}, 6.Ranger = 51.33K@305 in 168s, 7. Monk = 48.55K@255 in 190s, 8. Monk = 48.07K@293 in 164s, 9. Necromancer = 47.26K@265 in 178s

    I guess it all depends on how many wizards and rangers you have doesn't it (my point exactly about shorter fights). And on the 4th parse you posted, that necro was 5th without burning his Lifeburn. Ask that necro how hard he had to work to stack as much as he could during that fight? Then ask how hard the 1st place wizard had to work during the fight.

    Also, it gets worse in PoP fyi. Back in the day, the parse was Necro, Necro, Necro, Necro, Ranger, Ranger and then the rest during late Luclin, PoP, GoD, etc.
  7. Kahna Augur


    Fun facts, but this is the TLP section of the forums and no one here cares about live. If we did, we wouldn't be playing on the TLPs, so shuffle on back to your side of the house.
  8. Triconix Augur

    Unfortunately for you, I have two houses. One on a TLP server and one on live. In the meantime, maybe learn to play the class?

    What exactly is your point? You want necros to be the hands down best overall class in game for all aspects? Sorry, ain't going to happen. The necro class is plenty strong, both in raids and in the group and solo game.

    Also, it's not even that hard. It's a couple spell swaps while rotating dots. Any sane person should be happy to be active during a fight rather than being half numb staring at a screen with /autofire on and throwing a couple spells out here our there or auto attack on and spamming 1 button that's multi-bound to a few abilities. Top necros always had to work "harder" to be the best due to the natural design of the character. These top necros also never wanted the DoT revamps to happen. They liked the playstyle. The class was dumbed down and it's even more dumbed down in the early era TLPs because you don't have any other outside mechanics to worry about while rotating less dots. Stop being a lazy casual and play your class.
  9. Lejaun Augur

    Kind of a weird flex. He says his character was made in December 99 so you try to one up him by saying your character was made in March 99? Even if its true, what doe that have to do with anything and how does that prove you were some masterful player at that time anyways?
  10. taliefer Augur


    its a QoL thing. there is no good reason the fire dot line shouldnt be consolidated like what was done with the poison, disease, and druid dot line.
  11. Montag Augur

    My first necro was made in Beta phase 4 (trutly, I still have the black and white beta disc somewhere). So therefore I win and necro dots get consolidated!
  12. Ronluwen Elder

    Cherry picking parses to prove a point is lame. The dps heirarchy in luclin is:

    #1: Ranger/Wizard. Depending on how lazy your rangers are most combined parses are these two for the top 3 to 5.
    #2. Monk/Rogue. You're one to two rogues and decent monks should fill in the top 10 to 15. I'm fairly certain this expansion is the worst monks really have it, and they don't like not being top.
    #3. Mage's. I see mage's doing better on a regular basis than necro's. However mage's can sneak in top 10 on some combined and there's a number of bosses they can push top 3.
    #4. Necro's. Some fights they do well. Not often I see them on a combined parse higher than top 10 to 15.
    #5. Lazy Rangers/UnAA'd Wizards. Even the lazy rangers will swoop in top 15 to 20.

    When I'm talking dps rankings I'm talking the entire expansion, however a VT clear provides very clear parses on how classes should be doing.

    Also, just to note. I don't think Necro's are in a bad spot. They do ok enough dps and between FD rez, mind wrack, and twitch they do actually have a ton of utility. They were also really really strong in classic/kunark.
  13. Hadesborne Augur

    My sentiments exactly.


    He comes out of the gates swinging with his lame Dec '99 stament and yet doesn't actually state the truth that necros really were the top raid DPS class in the game from mid Luclin thru OOW at least. Necros aren't great in the group game, their kit isn't built for it. They are medicocre, at best, in groups from luclin forward. Saying otherwise would be foolish. They are great at soloing, and yet DBG effectively nerfed the heck out of solo xp by buffing group xp to insane levels. Also, did you even read the rest of the post where valid points were made about effort in should equal results out.


    Says who? You? Please, just stop.

    Consolidating the fire line would still allow a necro the do all the things they used to and not have to pull their hair out trying to manage a 12+ dot rotation, in freaking luclin where motm is a thing - read: resists, when the other high DPS classes are litteraly hitting one button every 6 seconds over and over, or heck, just autofire/autoattack afking.

    Let me reitterate this point: the disparity doesn't get any better later on. It only gets worse and worse for necros (partially because of the depopping and repopping or invulnerable Boss mechanics on raids and it's effects on dots and spin-up time) untill lvl 75+ (conveniently when they actually see their full revamp).
  14. sieger Augur

    This thread is a false premise, there was never a promise to do a 1-65 Necro DoT consolidation. Just because the other class DoT consolidations involved those level ranges, an assumption was made. That assumption is not correct. It is in fact the case that Necros are in a fine place DPS wise 1-65, and doing a DoT consolidation for them in that level range is unnecessary and will just introduce more balance issues on TLPs.

    I'll also just point out any silly "damage hierarchy" posted has a lot of caveats. Are you talking about single fight parse? What buffs does everyone have? Which specific fight is it? What is the raid composition of the raid in question? Are we talking trash mobs or bosses with MOTM?

    All of those factors produce dramatically different results on TLPs. Also what burn abilities are available. Necros do not have any big burn disc in the 1-65 era, several other classes do, so comparing a fight where a Ranger uses Trueshot for example isn't a good baseline for all fights (since Rangers will not have Trueshot up for every fight.) Some bosses are more resistant to Necro dots than others. Some classes scale particularly well in the 1-65 era with buffs from enchanters, Bard songs, Beastlords, Necros don't scale much with buffs in the 1-65 era (at least not as much as melee.) The buff situation is going to affect the parse outcome. Raid composition is also really important. Are you in a very high DPS guild with 72 mains killing content very quickly? That affects the overall duration of a fight which has a significant impact on the ordering of the classes. If you're in a guild clearing all the content with 40 people that's going to produce different results.

    At the end of the day, broadly speaking, Necromancers are in a good place in the 1-65 era. I think they are in a tad worse place in the level 70 expansions, and while I don't think any sever has hit the 75+ era during DoT consolidation (it came when both Selo and Coirnav were past that level range I believe), Mangler does in a couple months and we'll see how Necros fare at the "low end" of the DoT consolidation era (my guess is they'll do really well.) I can say from experience Necros are in a great place from 95-115.
    Skuz likes this.
  15. Triconix Augur

    Are you delusional? I was answering your random question. You came swinging out of the gate. Not I. Now we know the type of individual you are.
    Devs. There is a reason they didn't do it in the first place.
    So in reality you want to click a few things and afk? Seems pretty lazy gameplay to me. Good players beg to have the ability to do more, you're begging for the opposite. 12 dots? Child's play. Try doing 20 during actual encounters with mechanics and dozens of other abilities to click or be aware of being on you at the time.

    You say you want only fire dots consolidated, but most of these already have received pretty massive boosts without their official "revamp". This would only clear up what, 3 additional spells (pyro, ignite, boil)? Is this the hill you're going to die on? Decreasing your rotation from 12 to 9?
    Kobra likes this.
  16. Ronluwen Elder


    This is why the only parses that really matter are combined bosses and trash + bosses. Cherry picked parses where a class does well on a boss or two doesn't mean too much. Every expansion has a heirarchy where all things being equal, certain dps come out on top.

    In Luclin, all things being equal, most of your combined bosses and trash + boss parses should be ranger/wizard at the top.

    While I don't think Necro's are top tier dps right now, I also believe they did really well in previous expansions and get a huge boost come GoD and OOW. Then they get the dot revamp. They also have more utility than just about every other top tier dps combined.
    Bobbybick likes this.
  17. Xeris Augur

    While I think it would be cool for this to happen, having played through Agnarr (never played beyond ldon), I can say that Necros do very well in every expansion except pop.

    A good necro can top parses in kunark, velious, luclin fairly easily. Pop they're pretty weak, relative to other classes. My guess for why is that many classes start developing their more advanced skills/abilities during this era... While necros don't seem to start getting them until GOD for whatever reason.

    Pop fights are on average much shorter than the previous expansions so the impact of necro dot stacking is less. Also, melees (monk, rog, ranger) start getting hdex around pop/ldon which gives them a MASSIVE dps boost that pushes them above casters, since by comparison casters really only get 40% dmg augs, which help but not by as much as dex augs do.

    Either way, it's neat that a good necro can top parses pretty much every expac from classic - ldon except pop. Many people here say that they're VERY good DPS later, so is it really that bad there are a few xpac in the middle where they taper off?

    Dot revamp would be a nice to have, crit dots during Pop era would be a nice to have, but it's def not class-killing to keep necros as they are imo.
  18. Kobra Augur

    Heres the last combined parse from my guild. This was posted by our guild's parser so maybe its missing damage. I made it anonymous for every class except me (I am a necro if its not obvious).

    I can ask the guy who does the parsing if he can generate other combined parses, but I am guessing they will look similar to this one.

    We have seen every dps class except mages top boss parses, but I think this speaks to the potential of a well played necro on the combined parse.

    /GU Combined: SSRA in 6196s, 11321k @1827 | Kobra 716k | Ranger 580k | Wizard 506k | Rogue 483k | Wizard 444k {XXX} | Monk 417k | Monk 413k | Wizard 408k {X} | Monk 363k | Ranger 362k | Necro 353k {LXX} | Ranger 345k | Monk 311k | Mage + pets 301k {X} | Warrior {X} |...

    My opinion is still this. If you're a necro, get good and quit crying.
    Triconix likes this.
  19. Dark New Member


    Literally this. The difference between a well played necro and avg necro is much larger than any other class. When you tell me necros are #4 in luclin either you don't know what you are talking about or you have never played with a halfway decent necro (or both).
    Triconix and Kobra like this.
  20. Ronluwen Elder


    I don't really understand what this parse is. Is this all trash + bosses combined? How many people were in your raid? 1827 for a raid's dps is very low unless you're splitting way down. Was it you parsing and not picking up the entire raids dps?

    According to this you did 716,000 damage in 6196 seconds, for 115 dps. Maybe I'm missing something because that's fairly subpar for a top parser. It's possible that it's less of a just git gud scenario than you think.