[Mangler], Worst experience I've had in 20 years

I never said people didn't complain about boxing back then. Obviously people did. I said that elminating boxing was specifically not DBG's goal in creating truebox. If it had been, they would not have immediately advertised it with a boxing setup.

You are moving the goalposts.

Also I didn't post on the forums before 2012, but my account was created in 1999. Do I need to post a screenshot with /played? I notice your forum account was created in 2013, after mine... So I guess by your own standard, you must be lying about all your experiences before 2013. Duly noted.

I mean, nothing he said the post you quoted was wrong.

It's pretty sweaty to be running 4+ physical computers to play an mmo with yourself.

It's pretty clear OP needs to be on Aradune though. Basically anyone who doesn't want to box has to be on Aradune, just a fact.

Don't confuse software KVMs with the cheat programs. It's not even remotely the same thing. And if you are mousing over to your boxes, you are doing it wrong. Boxes should be keyboard only.

People forget that the old forums were abandoned/deleted & that this forum is not the original one.

I have 4 computers and I'm very cool and not sweaty at all I also don't just play with myself. I have a guild and raid and do stuff with my guildmates pretty often. But, when there's nobody else online, or I want to down old raid targets to farm kronos, I just 4box the content. The concept of boxing multiple characters and being social in this game aren't mutually exclusive as some people, including OP, make it out to be.

Proving that people were whining about boxing does not make you or them correct. People are not going to suddenly group up en masse because boxing is not allowed. If people wanted to group they would drop boxes and group. If people don't want to group, they aren't going to group, whether or not there is a box alternative.

You can quote a billion old comments or draw as many examples from p99 which is locked to velious. It won't matter. In god+ eq people move away from pugging and this has always been the case. People don't want to pug.

I get that most of this stuff I'm saying is anecdotal, but I don't get why edge case related experiences, or Rizlona is being compared to what I'm experiencing on Mangler. Rizlona is more populated than mangler for starters, so your experience there is going to be different than my own.

Xeris, nobody said boxing and social are mutually exclusive. However, you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't agree to their mutually diminishing margins. Meaning the more boxers, the less social interactions. The more real people, the less boxers. I'm glad you've helped your guildmates out, as mine have done for me. Almost always it's been a box crew doing it (like yours). I don't think there's any reason to continue pretending like boxing on truebox is a good thing, it's not. Your 4 physical computers is not something anyone can do. Meaning the toll you take is much greater than 1 user running multiple clients.

Also the semantics stuff is incredibly obnoxious, you're "sweaty" because you have 4 physical computers to box a 22 year old game. That's why you're sweaty. As someone who has boxed in many games for many years, I draw the line at having more than 1 computer in 2021

Any tech hobbyist or gamer who likes to have friends over is likely to have multiple gaming capable computers, and more than that when it comes to EQ capable computers. The only real limitation for them with Truebox is the physical distance between them. Apparently there are software solutions to that, but personally I like two keyboards and mice over simulating non-Truebox functionality. But then I wont box more than two, both for the complexity and desk-crowding it would add.

Truebox limits the one man raids, and the multi-group ks forces. It can't stop them, because there's always a few people with the will and the means, but it stops a lot of it. You can achieve a lot with a duo if you pick the classes right. EQ will run on very low end PC's and you don't need high resolution for a boxed toon. The average person could pick up a used laptop and dual-box with it, with very minimal disruption of space or budget.

It's so odd that you're both arguing that people have multiple computers, and that if they don't it's entirely affordable to go buy a second one. That's basically the one sentence summary of both of those paragraphs. The point has nothing to do with that, it's the current implementation of truebox. It shouldn't be "oh well go buy another computer". The problem is there's enough people (a majority even) who already have done that, and its implications on the server as a whole for the remaining players who aren't capable (or inclined) to do the same. That level of disparity between how the game can be played is [far more] egregious with the truebox restriction. I've made that point rather clear, people that aren't boxing are more heavily impacted due to the truebox restriction.

How does a thread about somebody who can’t find a group go on for this many pages?

Lots of people in your position make it work. If you're not some kind of antisocial gremlin, suck it up and make it work or play on a server that lets you box.

Because it's a thread about the issue with trueboxing.

Lots of people box. Most newer players to the server I've spoken to (several of which are in my current guild) have all described the same problem. Telling me to "suck it up and make it work" is what I've been doing. Playing on a different server is still an option, I haven't taken that off the table.

I don't think you understand what's on the other side of the fence you want to tear down. There are far more people who would 6-box and 12-box and 54-box with software assistance making it simple for them, if the truebox restriction wasn't there. They will monopolize content, they will stomp on you if you are in their way. Many of us don't want that annoyance. If you want to play on a server without the truebox restriction, go play on one. Rizlona or Live, not sure if there are others.

As far as the computers go, let me lay this out. EQ will run on a potato PC, maybe not awesomely, but it will be playable. I'm not saying the average person has multiple systems with modern processors and graphics cards, though some do. When the average person buys a new computer, they still have the old one. That old one will run EQ. So literally anybody who bought a new PC in the last 5 years, and didn't throw the old one away, can run two boxes. If they have a friend who did the same and doesn't want the old PC, they could likely pick it up from them cheap. I'm not expecting people to go over-spend on an old PC in the during a pandemic when those prices may be double what they should be.

I get that you don't like truebox and that you have reasons for that. But some of us do like truebox and have reasons for that also. The only true solution is for all of us to play on the servers that have the ruleset we like. I'm sorry that Mangler didn't end up being that for you, maybe wait for the next round of TLP's and make a new choice with the knowledge you have now.

What content exactly are mass boxers going to stomp anyone out of on a server in the eras mangler is up to? Por is like the last really serious open bottleneck I think?

Probably nothing, I wasn't really thinking about that. I don't care about removing truebox later in a TLP's life, and for the context of this thread maybe my argument is irrelevant. I'm just pointing out that owning two or three computers isn't that weird, and that truebox has a purpose, albeit one that mostly matters in the early expansions.

People have asked for truebox removal at a later point in the TLP life cycle and it hasn't happened yet, maybe it will.

Server has truebox to reduce boxing,
its working boxing is reduce to people who want/can buy additional machines
But thats not fair to some people so we should remove restrictions, so more boxing is allows.
Even though there is one TLP already for this.

I mean this makes no sense, Truebox has worked especially earlier TLP's. Biggest issue is the total lack of any real GM support on these servers, i mean when you have people boxing 24 main raids size groups for days on end 24/7 , just really poor. I mean 2 hrs per week sorting out new TLP's earlyon would make a HUGE difference on their economy and playability.

3 of my boxes are laptops that are 10+ years old. They run EQ like a champ.

Op is making judgements about people that have multiple pcs? You're literally on a forum talking about playing a 20+ year old game. It's the nerdiest/lamest thing possible pretty much. I don't think anyone who plays EQ is really in a position to judge anyone else who plays this game.

We're all lame.

On live servers, you can't just turn on LFG and expect to get a group either. You have to form the group and find LFG people and be willing to go start your task with 2 or 3 players. A lot of everquest players are lazy and wont form a group and have no idea of what they want to do with their game session.

You need to make friends, I would like if they'd add dungeon finder and cross server instancing like wow or FF for when I'm feeling lazy. People make friends and there's such a skill gap in players that they would rather wait till the person that doesn't suck gets on than attempt to have a PUG.

The skill gap (plus the not paying attention gap) is so large that there's people at 115 who average 40k dps over a long exp grind. (for you TLP people thats really really low). Thats so low that mercs do way better and mercs aren't really good.