Wizard Love

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mazame, Feb 12, 2021.

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  1. kizant Augur

    The last few years I actually think Wizards got some pretty reasonable upgrades. The problem is that other classes have been getting things are kinda broken/op.
  2. Mongol311 A really bad wiz

    agreed, but just because a nerf happens on a relative basis instead of an absolute basis, no diff, it's still a nerf
  3. Kelset Elder


    For those not reading through the eight pages so far....^this^ on page 5 from Kizant and Beimeith.
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  4. Mongol311 A really bad wiz

    BUMP
  5. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Any dev feed back on this?
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  6. kizant Augur

    Just to give some examples with regard to single target burns. Here's a Sontalak where everyone looks like the were trying. We managed 56 million DPS as a raid for the entire 90s. I had full ADPS and didn't do anything dumb. This was also after the proc change.

    Sontalak in 90s, 5.09B Damage @56.50M, 13. Kizant +Pets = 149.13M@1.66M in 90s {GM}

    The highest caster on this event did 57% more damage than me and the highest melee did 44% more. There's also at least seven different classes that can do a better burn than me from what I can tell. So, then if we look at only the first 60s of the fight my parse looks like this.

    Sontalak in 60s, 3.87B Damage @64.42M, 14. Kizant +Pets = 113.48M@1.86M in 61s {GM}

    In this case, the top melee did 65% more and top caster did 26% more.

    At 40 seconds another Wizard was ahead of me but the top melee was doing 82% more and the top caster 15% more than they were.

    Also, note that before the proc change (example below) I was able to do a little over 10% better in a 60 second time frame. Which is inline with what my original estimate for what the proc change would do. But even then, obviously, I was significantly behind the top caster and melee. ** Just noticed I didn't use glyph on the parse below so it's definitely over 10% from the proc change.

    Zlandicar in 63s, 3.64B Damage @57.77M, 11. Kizant = 126.16M@2.07M in 61s {M}

    And just for fun. Here's what my 60s looked like during TBL. Wizards have gotten good increases over the past two years but we've just fallen behind everyone else. The top melee was only doing 22% more than me back then.

    Rustbottom, Grinder of Gears in 63s, 1.42B Damage @22.48M, 6. Kizant = 67.31M@1.12M in 60s {GM}
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  7. Metanis Bad Company

    I've been following the various wizard dps threads with interest. That's because I see this as a marker for Darkpaw's commitment to keeping the game alive.

    Many classes posted in the Beta forums these last two years and the response is close to zero. Now with wizards we have a plainly obvious case where fixes need to be made and the Darkpaw response to date has been to nerf you even further. I mean they made one small improvement that maybe took 4 hours of labor to accomplish?

    They say silence is golden but sometimes silence just means F U.
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  8. Cuuthbert Augur

    I flat agree wizards need some attention. To me the 2 classes that need the most attention are Wizards and Druids. They have both fallen behind their counterparts badly
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  9. Kelset Elder

    Kizant,
    Does this hold true for middle of the pack comparisons as well? For top of class versus top of class, that's an incredible disparity when wizards are a pure dps class. I'm just curious with so much on the wizard side reliant on the right mix of adps, triggers and spell casts, how the average of the classes holds up compared to each other. I haven't played any other DPS classes but have the impression that it takes a bit more to maximize the wizard and would think that average versus average would have a greater difference. Pure speculation on my part though.

    Thanks for the data!
  10. kizant Augur

    Most of our players perform fairly similar when they have the same ADPS so I can't really tell that. I think most classes need a lot of ADPS to do well on raids so I'm not sure if wizards are particularly worse off than others. The biggest issue I guess is we do need bards and most guilds probably don't have enough for every melee and caster group.
  11. SonOfABiscuit Augur

    Welp, I give up. this thread has been active for the last month with no answer from the devs one way or the other. At this point I will just assume the answer is they DGAF.
    Yinla likes this.
  12. Warpeace Augur



    Lol, they just changed it a month ago. You don't think they are going to wait a bit and see what the numbers are before doing something while still trying to find the cause of all the lag?? Please lets have them rush and give you something only to nerf it the following month.
  13. Goburs The Filthy Casualz Leader

    Took YEARS to get a revamp on classes like Necros that needed a serious adjustment. This isn't as simple as pressing 1 red button. They need to test things, re-test things, and then fix things if/when they implement it, if there's any bugs. Give it time. I've seen wizards top parses for certain events. It's certainly not often (almost never) especially when you raid with Derresh!

  14. Ezbro Elder


    Agree with all the rest, but I have a Focus: Vortexes 14/14 in my AA, that adds 31% to base dmg.
    Is that the one you meant?
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  15. kizant Augur

    There are two issues here. One related to lag and the other to Wizard burn DPS. Nobody expects the lag to be solved over night and I'm sure they're working on more changes and some adjustment to the proc change.

    The other issue is simply with Wizard burn DPS as a whole. It's been a problem for a few years and most the recommended changes are pretty easy to implement. It's not at all similar to the necro situation. Reducing the about of debuffs/DoTs used takes a lot more work than tweaking some numbers. We've provided plenty of data and I can tell them within a week of changes if something becomes too strong. The last thing I want is for Wizards to be another overpowered broken class. We have enough of those.
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  16. Ezbro Elder

    oops sorry, already answered earlier. You meant Composite ,post 105 .
  17. Kelset Elder


    Agree 100% that structurally, this looks like it's a lot simpler to fix. Looking at the suggested changes above, only a couple on the list are changes to the fundamentals such as redoing mana burn. The rest are just percentage or fixed number changes that don't require coding rewrites. Really it's just coming up with the target dps and testing whether the changes are within acceptable ranges of the target.

    The only place I would differ is that I don't think it's just a burn DPS issue and would like base DPS to be more competitive. Granted though, that's based on purely anecdotical circumstances to my experience as a casual player.
  18. kizant Augur

    Well they kinda go together since over time you should be clicking things every time they're available. We're probably middle of the road right now over a long duration and we'd would still move up some even if all they did was focus on burns.
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  19. Kelset Elder


    Unfortunately I'm an adps hoarder, breaking them out for named or overpulls. It's a habit driven by necessity to a certain degree due to the inverse relationship between the length of the fight and my paladin's ability not to die. It's particularly drilled in during the early parts of the expansion and I should probably change as I get him geared up. Though being able to bring the wrath of wizard, even in its diminished capability, is a nice safety net and hard to give up in that context.
    I get the point though that, used consistently, adps changes would increase overall long run dps.
  20. Warpeace Augur


    Yes the Dev team is absolutely ignoring Wizards, make sure you bump this every time its not the #1 thread in the vets lounge. While your at it make sure to just bump every thread pertaining to Wizards, that will get their attention and make them work faster.
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