T3 hype

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lisard, Mar 8, 2021.

  1. KrakenReality Augur


    What % of MAUs are the top 3 raid guilds?
  2. Caisy Master


    The problem is, 98% of the middle isn't close to an actual representation of who is raiding. As far as people saying things like it's nice having someone to give you strats, that's all well and good, but you still need 54 people to execute those strats. Being told how to do something does equal success in doing so.
  3. Jennre Band Leader

    Look on steam, a lot of game companies have public betas/early access. It's hardly predatory, they specifically say that its a beta test, not trying to pass it off as live access.

    Your forum posts don't stop me from doing anything, post away.

    They also maintain internal QA teams. Internal QA teams will never uncover some stuff that those out in the wild will uncover. This actually helps those looking for jobs in the industry. Public betas uncover bugs that are very rarely found in internal QA testing, making the product better, more profitable, and thus can afford to hire QA leads and testers. Think about the findings of people like Sancus, Beimeth, Kizant, etc. Some of these things can only be found on Live servers, or through testing done by people that care deeply about their class.

    Do you work for DBG/DPG? If not, you making RL cash from this game hurts the industry a lot more than public betas.
  4. smash Augur

    With the amount of raids there is in present days expansion, making 1 raid for the top 3 guilds, thats around 10% of all the raids, then it is too much.

    When that said, I am one of those that did beat Meratas, and I was on a rush for hours after.
    Jennre likes this.
  5. smash Augur

    But nor is the top 1% a representative of those that raids. If you go in and see who raids, then you will get the picture of who is the majority of those,
  6. Metanis Bad Company

    Synopsis of the last 2 pages... Tastes great! Less filling!
    RPoo, Cailen, Elyssanda and 1 other person like this.
  7. Caisy Master

    I'm not disagreeing at all, I'm just suggesting that 100% of the base is not interested in raiding, so the suggestion that they have to cater to 98% of the base instead of the actual raiding population is not accurate.
  8. Sancus Augur

    I think there are a few misconceptions here.

    First, there are only about fourty raiding guilds/teams in EQ, depending on how many you believe exist but never report. I don't think content should exist only for the top three guilds, but the top five (a more common metric) would make up more than 10% of raid forces.

    Secondly, there isn't a binary choice between Vulak and Mearatas. It took ten months and three nerfs for ten guilds to beat Mearatas. Ten guilds beat Vulak in two days. There is a huge tuning range in between the two that could make content that is challenging for the top five or ten (i.e. takes most other than maybe RoI more than a day to defeat on live) without catering only to three guilds.
    Sokki likes this.
  9. KrakenReality Augur


    So, what % of MAUs are the top 5 guilds?
  10. Niskin Clockwork Arguer

    In general that is true, but in this case it's likely that the volunteers are helping keep the devs in a job longer than they would be otherwise, rather than eroding their position or devaluing them in any way. People can use their time however they like as long as they aren't hurting other people. Volunteering for a huge profit soaking corporation might hurt somebodies job, volunteering for one that is on life support will likely do the opposite and keep them employed longer.

    As for my relationship with EQ, I've spent more years not playing it than I have playing it, but i always come back, and I'm glad it's still here. With that said, I know it will die some day, and i will be sad, but my points here are not unreasonable or based on emotion. DPG is not fleecing the volunteers to make bigger profits or fire people, they are accepting help from people who are passionate about their product, so that the product can be better, or more specifically, continue to exist.

    The people responsible for the situation DPG is in are mostly gone at this point, and the ones that aren't weren't the ones in a position to make those decisions. I don't think you understand what it's like to be the last team on the job that has to shut off the lights and lock the doors for the last time. You have to work harder just to keep things running. You may not see much in the way of pay increases. Infrastructure improvements that make your job easier may not happen, staffing will be insuficient. You will eventually lose your job and you have to keep working knowing that, potentially for a long time. It sucks, and probably a bit more when people are saying "don't help them, they won't appreciate it and they don't deserve it."

    So if people want to use their time to help make the game better, so be it. No matter how much it irks you, I guarantee there are more of us that appreciate it than there are of you who think it's some major problem.
    Scornfire and Jennre like this.
  11. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence


    Emotion aside, this is a bit of an absolutist view. There are enough examples of monetary value and markets created from labor that was volunteered, especially in software. Linux permeates modern life but could not exist if this is how everyone approached problems.

    I understand this discussion stems from a player voluntarily finding and documenting bugs in a game but you seem to be taking the stance beyond that example.

    In this example, even if the company had the best QA personnel they would not find all issues but if players volunteer to report what they find, that could demonstrate the need and value in another position created to fix issues.
    KrakenReality likes this.
  12. cadres Augur

    Good point
    Or...
    Make the final raid hard but not *that* hard. Make the final achievement(s) associated with the final raid (or 2/3) *exceedingly* hard.
    So 'normal' guilds get something that is winnable (with significant effort/practice/luck) and 'elite' guilds get something properly challenging
  13. KrakenReality Augur


    The problem is you spend time making this difficult content, then it largely goes unused. You make a difficult achievement that raid will only do it a couple times a year for people. You add difficult raids at the end like Mearatas, and they don't get any replay. People just avoid the difficult content, when it's turned into farm status.

    Too few people and too little usage to really justify the amount of dev time it takes.
  14. Axxius Augur

    The 'uber' raid needs to be clearly designated as such. In fact, advertise it, say it right in the new expansion announcement that there are 8 'regular' raids and 1 'ultimate challenge'. Make it clear that this raid is not meant to be beaten on the opening day and requires significant time and effort to beat.

    This way all guilds should be aware of the difference between 'Stratos' and 'Mearatas', and no 'middle guilds' should have false expectations that then lead to frustration when they realize that not all raids are made equal.

    Then there should be a clearly marked nerf schedule: after 1 month this raid gets easier (let's say all hp and damage is reduced by 10%), then again after 3 months, etc etc. After 6 months, in the middle of the expansion cycle, it's just another raid.

    Top guilds fight for the bragging rights and figure out who is the strongest of them all. 'Middle' guilds try it with nothing to lose and no pressure, knowing that they will eventually beat it too. I'm sure everybody in this game is aware of the fact that not all guilds are on the same level. But this design should satisfy both the top end and 'middle' guilds.
    Sokki, Thunderkiks, Maedhros and 3 others like this.
  15. Jennre Band Leader

    I love this idea. I actually liked it, then unliked it just so I could like it again.

    Edit: Could also make it so it is only beatable once, but SUPER difficult.
  16. Jumbur Improved Familiar


    Bragging rights for the top-guilds, is what the vanquisher achievements are for. Im kinda surprised they aren't emphasized more on the leaderboards...
  17. KrakenReality Augur


    So, basically you just want a game built around competition? Your idea is awful, and does nothing to alleviate the problems you responded to. They're better off putting effort into the casual portion of the game.
  18. smash Augur

    I would rather have the other way around, it start up middle toughness, and then for each 5 win it will become tougher.

    You can continue to beat the easier version, but the raid will not evolve up in hardness, if you dont choose next version and beat it.

    And after 6 months, the ultimate version will be there if you beat all the previous versions, and you will get a special title, you get if you beat the ultimate version, and recipe for a PS that is 50% better than the best and you can make 1 ps only. It will slowly drain as normal and the way to charge it up is to beat the ultimate version of the raid again.



    And at end of expansion you will see, who is able to go all the way, and who cannot.
  19. Bahdah Augur

    also, congratulations to everyone that completed t3.
    Cailen, Maedhros, Elyssanda and 7 others like this.
  20. Axxius Augur

    Uhh... EQ raiding has always been about competition. Unless you started playing this game last year, I suppose.