My problem with melee dps being so dominant.

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Samithekittycat, Mar 7, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Samithekittycat New Member

    I could ramble alot here but i'll keep it simple.

    So my options for most of the early TLP experience is play a braindead melee (or bow ranger) and top meters, or play a caster dps which actually has some gameplay, but be a meme dps compared to the melee alot of the time.

    I'm contemplating playing either a necro or wiz from luclin onwards, but it just seems pointless. I can't help but think about how frustrated i'm going to be on high resist fights, while the melee top every fight no problem with auto attack and spamming 1 or 2 other buttons.

    I wish I didn't have to choose between boring classes and being good at my role.
  2. TLP Addict Augur

    Wizards and to a lesser extent Necromancers are doing absolutely fine in Luclin. Wizards should continue to do so into PoP, but Necro's may fall off a bit due to lack of dot crits until GoD.
  3. Religious Elder

    Casters do well enough from Luclin-GoD, even if they're not topping the DPS, they're still respectable and each of them brings something to the table. Yes, even Wizards. That being said, OOW is hands down a melee orientated expansion, and if you plan to play through it, you should prepare yourself to either main change, or watch as over half of your entire kit, well, does nothing.
  4. TLP Addict Augur

    On the flip side, at least as a caster you get options for gaining xp or farming outside of raids while most melee require a group to get anything done.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    What matters to you most? Playing a class that you enjoy or topping the parse?

    Topping any parse does not make your class intrinsically better to play. not topping a parse does not make your class intrinsically worse to play - thinking either of those things is the absolute truth is self-limiting & myopic in nature and would cause you to become one of those godawful FOTM players that switch classes all the damn time.

    What class tops the parse in any expansion shifts over time, and what was the best back when classic or Kunark first appeared is very different to which classes will do so today on a TLP.

    All that changes is your enjoyment of the class in one solitary aspect.

    If you are parsing & seeing monks do ridiculous damage you should also be seeing that the other melee dps are not doing monk dps either.

    Fact is that the way the changes to live affected melee damage caused Monks to gain far more than any other melee class, nobody can touch them until much later on.

    Monk DPS is anomalous on TLP and doesn't reflect melee damage for most of the melee classes.

    If you take monks out of the picture the situation between melee & casters is far more balanced.

    Something similar happens in the levels where Necromancers spells were revamped (71+) where you will see Necromancers doing 2-3 times the damage of the next best melees, even on supposed "burn" fights.

    In the case of Necromancers there is at least likely to be further changes & a balance pass some time after all of the spell changes are completed. In the case of Monks that will be far trickier as that would involve rebalancing efforts across all of the expansions up to Rain of Fear at least.

    By all means parse, just be aware of the anomalies that exist & take them into account when thinking about how you stack up versus your counterparts playing other classes.
  6. Samithekittycat New Member

    My answer to that, as i'm sure it is with most people, is a mix of both, thus my dilemma.

    Idk, think i'm gonna go necro and just pretend meters dont exist for my bad fights, or something.
  7. Siah Elder

    Lol just wait til PoP unlocks and everyone starts using autoskill at level 61 :p
  8. yerm Augur

    The entire stretch of GOD through TBS is dominated by melee. I expect necros to creep back in during TSS as the lone exception. Every time I check on a TLP that's gotten past the 70s the report is a billion monks and very few casters and priests, with only said priests being what they're desperately recruiting.

    It's pretty soul crushing to play a caster and go through the endless half year grinds of potime over and over always knowing in the back of your mind that for over a year after this you're going to be garbage.
  9. Arctodus Elder

    This type of balancing affects server population stability and needs to be address. I do not want to see melee damage nerfed but for caster's to be brought up to their level. This also affects loot decisions within guilds to load up certain melee dps first with upgrades. To much teeter in this totter.
  10. Kobra Augur

    I have been a necro main since the game's inception and played on a few TLPs as a necro. I have never not been at the top of the parse or near it provided a few caveats like if the mob is resistant to my spells or not.

    I play on Rizlona right now and if my spells land I top the parse period. I usually crush the combined parse too because even if melee are OP as you claim its not always about the class, its about the player.

    Last time I played during the 70s expansions the melee, especially monks did do quite a lot of damage I never felt like a meme though. I do remember many of the mobs in Anguish felt outright immune to many of my spell lines and that sucks for sure. If your spells don't land you can't reach the top of the parse its that simple. Then again the guild I was in at that time was not very good. Maybe the mobs were not debuffed properly.

    If I had to pick a reason why melee do even better in the 70s is the perception that melee are better, they get all the adps like bards and caster adps isn't quite as developed by that point if I remember correctly.
  11. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    The main reason people think mages/wizards aren't strong in PoP/Ldon being because almost everyone sucks at playing them.

    Also if you want a non"braindead" melee i recommend Ranger. The perception of /autofire on afk isn't close to a reality.
  12. AtabishiWoW Second best guild leader you'll ever have

    I have a few questions.

    #1. Why should a Necro even be close in DPS on a raid to a monk or rogue? or even a wizard?
    Necromancers have an insane amount of utility and quality of life spells, and the ability to do more things than pretty much any class in the game. You basically get a little bit of everything for every situation. What would be inbalanced is if Necro's did the same or more DPS than a pure melee or wizard. If what you were calling for is actual balance, necro's would be out parsed by Monks/rogues/rangers/wizards/mages/zerkers.

    You're completely disregarding everything a necro has/can do if you are complaining that they aren't topping parses vs classes that are literally made to DPS and basically nothing else. This is how you find out who the bad necro's are.

    #2. Basically the same as #1, why should a wizard consistently out parse a monk/rogue? While wizards should definitely be the highest DPS of the caster classes, I don't really see how pushing them above melee would be balanced. Wizards can do more than just dps. The way it is now seems pretty fair to me. Melee like Monks are regarded as the top DPS not because they are topping charts every boss in every expansion, its because they are the most consistent DPS. They can always do DPS. They aren't always the top, but they are never the bottom. Wizards have their good fights and bad ones, good expansions and bad ones. Wizards dominate the first 4 expansions (classic-luclin) and then will have a period of time where they aren't top DPS, but they are pretty much always good dps.
    Fenthen likes this.
  13. Dailor Augur

    Anyone on Mangler around to comment on how Necros are doing in the 70's era now post DoT revamps? I am sure resists are still awful, but it's got to at least feel better than previous TLPs.
  14. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    Why should a melee be anywhere close to a caster?

    Phenomenal cosmic power vs smack it with your fist.


    Melee classes have utility too.
  15. Kobra Augur


    Necros are a pure damage class for 1 and our niche is sustained dps. Bosses have a lot of hps so if our spells land necros should do very well against bosses.

    All the utility you're talking about is great but utility isn't a game role. Nobody brings a necro to raids for the utility.

    Why should a wizard outparse a monk? Well I would argue it depends on the circumstances. In a burst fight situation I would expect a wizard to top the parse, if they don't I would say its a player skill issue and not a class balance one.
  16. Digler Elder

    Play a class you enjoy, play it well. You'll be a value to groups and raids.

    Seek out advice from other players, message boards, etc. Don't assume you know everything just cause you've played a [insert class here] since 1999.

    If the only reason you play is to "top the parse", you really need to get out more.
    Karreck, Tweakfour17 and Skuz like this.
  17. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Sir Necros have the best mana Regen buff in the game in these eras
  18. Kobra Augur


    Yeah I use that all the time in groups. On raids I haven't had a reason to use it. Our dps is very strong in my guild and mana is never an issue for healers. I regularly talk with the highest dps wizard in my guild and he seems to be gated by aggro and not mana. The mages in my guild are not worth mana dumping either they are nowhere to be found on our parses.

    Once upon a time when people were bad at this game I would concede the point. In modern era stuff dies much faster.
  19. Boze TLP complaint factory


    Sounds like your wizards aren't concussing enough, or getting "strategic" divine rezzes. Here's our top wizard's spell totals combining together the two AHR blobs last week where he dunked on the rangers:
    Combined: Kaas Thox Xi Aten Ha Ra - Spells Cast By: XXXXXXX: 283 | Ancient: Greater Concussion: 130 | Flaming Sword of Xuzl: 3 | Garrison's Superior Sundering: 57 | Mana Conversion: 2 | Slain: 3 | Tears of Solusek: 91

    Quick napkin math says that's ~69,000 mana (maybe 62k with mana pres) across two fights totaling ~25 mins, albeit with three deaths (lol).
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    We already had CasterQuest. Team ManaBurn etc.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.