Extended Target, Click From Bags, and other TLP QoL Upgrades

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by McJumps, Feb 24, 2021.

  1. Francey New Member

    My point is that all things should be considered, not just individuals, soloing, grouping or raiding. I'm not sure what you're referring to about inventive ways? Just COTH, camp out and back in or even run out of range...These are the pretty standard means of getting out of combat with something, not inventive here.


    I think you are confusing "something positive" with "disagreeing with me". Nothing Machen, myself or others regarding OOC regen have been negative in nature. We're making factual statements which can easily be backed up. Just because that contradicts your 'it's only QoL" doesn't mean it's not a good discussion to have. You should be open minded and willing to accept that maybe your last thrown in item is a bit of a reach and should just be removed from consideration.
  2. Triconix Augur

    A healer with 9k mana and 100 mana regen will need no less than 9 full minutes to regen from zero to full. That's also not including any rebuffs that they would have to do during this downtime, specifically between raid targets.

    Enabling fast regen somewhere between POP and OOW I see as a non-issue. You're removing a few minutes each downtime. The "power increase" isn't all that big a deal. Also, the raid events that take >15-20 minutes are far and few between from what I remember during those eras and that's not with all the natural player power already injected into the game since I've last done that content.

    The only major shift in power would be in the group game and the downtime there. Exp will roll faster and more and more players will be maxed, and at a faster clip. However, using player power as justification to implement it earlier seems quite a bit of a strawman. If we were really concerned about player power being too out of whack, the dichotomy between casters and melee in early EQ, specifically in group exping, would need to be addressed (ex a couple casters can AE down half a zone vs melee who can barely solo one of those mobs being AEed). But that's a discussion for another time.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. taliefer Augur

    I dont want the agro meter anywhere near old eq. get that stuff off my lawn. OOC regen at depths would be alright, any sooner and its not really needed. but I dont see that waiting another 2 expansions for it at that point is that big a deal either.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    While Extended target is certainly game-changing it doesn't increase the power of any players, it does make targeting much easier so it can help efficiency but raw power is completely not involved.
  5. Kardash New Member

    i agree with McJumps. i understand that these quality of life improvements were made with specific expansion releases, but you know what? you did not have to purchase these expansions in order to utilize aggro meters and ooc regen. you did have to own the corresponding expansion to use the bazaar delivery function. at this point, anyone that plays on a TLP has purchased these expansions in one way or another. please consider giving TLP servers aggro these much appreciated QoL improvements.

    that being said, i would consider aggro meters the #1 most needed change.
  6. Xeris Augur

    I think VP 2.0 during Pop/ldon would be WONDERFUL!
  7. Machen New Member

    I very seriously doubt that. I doubt most TLPers have purchased any expansion past PoP or Gates, ever. You don't need to purchase any expansion to play on the TLP's until you hit two expansions before live.
  8. taliefer Augur


    the amount of illusions/petamorphs etc ive seen on TLPs taht come packaged in with expansions makes me think a significant amount of TLPers buy the expansions. I know I have up until this latest expansion, and I imagine if i start on a new tlp ill end up buying it too.

    wouldnt hazard to guess a percentage, but I know im not the only one that buys expansions I havent set foot it.
  9. Machen New Member


    Yeah, there are certainly some. I don't know if it's a little bit or a lot. I am not seeing a ton of Verdant Hedgerow leaf mounts on Rizlona currently, and that's one that everyone would be rocking over the dbc mount if they had it. But I do see some non-cash mounts here and there. Dunno the ratio. I probably overstated things to say that most haven't bought any expansions. But I don't think everyone's bought them all by any stretch.
  10. Triconix Augur

    On Aradune there are a ton of the CoV mounts running around (frostwurms and bunnies).
  11. error Augur

    As a mage I feel like ooc regen from day 1 would be over the top. The effects would extend well beyond just reducing downtime, allowing you to go all out non-stop in an era where caster damage output is somewhat balanced around their mana regen. Of course, if you're only looking at it from a raiding perspective it's a different story and would really help reduce wipe recovery periods, but it's kind of an all or nothing mechanic that applies regardless of content.

    OoW would be the perfect time to enable it in my opinion. By then mana usage and mana pools have far outgrown trivial gains in mana regen. Feels bad on fast paced raids when you're forced to burn your entire mana pool on a fight to put out competitive dps then stuck medding through most of the trash while the melee can just keep hacking away.

    Aggro meter I'm okay with. Most dps classes already have decent aggro management tools and shouldn't really be pulling threat so it's mostly just helping the couple classes that are left out. And there's so much disparity in threat output between individual tanks in the early expansions that it's pretty difficult to gauge how hard you can push your damage unless you've been raiding with that specific tank for a while.
  12. McJumps TLP QoL Activist


    I agree that OOC regen should not be in from day one. I think at a minimum PoP or beyond. OoW seems like a good spot. I just feel it needs to be in before TSS. Something to help with that level 70 slump that seems to kill server population on TLPs.

    As for aggro meters, I see no reason why they shouldn't become a thing at level 60 or 65, or even sooner. I keep trying to reason why Extended Target window should be acceptable on a TLP but not aggro meters and I cannot think of one single argument that holds water. If I am missing something here, please let me know.
  13. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Aggro meter - yep agreed, maybe set it to a minimum level of 30 or 40 so it doesn't confuse returning newbies

    Parceled bazaar purchases - yep agreed, this should absolutely be in as soon as Luclin launches

    OOC regen - disagree on this one. This is a HUGE decrease in downtime, especially in early eras when mana regen items are very scarce. We already have groups in early eras dominating a huge number of mobs, much more than a single group could camp in the past. Adding OOC regen would have a single group dominating all of Lower Guk by themselves, easily. I'd be cool with adding it around OoW though.
  14. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    Well, from what I see here, most people at least agree, there is little to no reason for aggro meters not to be in the game on TLPs much earlier than we would normally get them.

    Still a bit of a split on the OOC regen issue, which is totally understandable, but I am glad there is a least some consensus on the subject of aggro meters. Now if we could just get eyes on this that could actually make a difference.
  15. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    With Planes of Power right around the corner on Aradune and Rizlona, I think its time to address Aggro meters again. I Would love to know if the choice to give Extended target but NOT Aggro meters was arbitrary or just an oversight. Would love some dev input!
  16. Zinth Augur


    Uhm? 9K mana 100 mana regen (guess that is per tick yes? is that sitting? standing? buffs? necro twich?) and yes the older raids were slower, suddenly going down to full mana in 2½ minute is a gigantic powerboost... could slap it into pop... would love it in Velious but yeah it would be quite "game breaking" even though we all love ooc regen
  17. Triconix Augur

    I guess it was a good thing I had already said somewhere between POP and OOW previously.
  18. Discord Ocean of Tears Conservationist

    Fellowships and campfires starting with Gates
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    I assume that's a request not a statement. Fellowships started with The Buried Sea.
  20. Moranis Augur

    You can quibble over the precise definition of "power increase", but I'd argue that being able to kill significantly more mobs per unit_time would count. Individual fights outside of a few select raids wouldn't be affected much, but it would seriously disrupt already undersized "camps" thru most of early EQ and change the group_fighting power dynamic starkly in favor of casters (which might actually be a good thing?).

    On the flip side, there would also probably be a number of interesting changes that would result...
    1. Necros and shamans would lose some of the benefit from their class-specific mana regen advantages
    2. Raid gear itemization would get weird in Luclin and beyond because mana regen items would be significantly less valuable except to maybe healers.
    3. The general group game would change from chain-pulling to burn_and_rest...or maybe not, depending on your group composition.
    4. Would make the game interesting in that casters can strategically step in and out of combat to min/max
    5. Int/Wis and Mana+ gear would be undisputed top dawg for casters...the more total mana, the longer you can burn between rest periods
    6. The caster/melee power dynamic would change...it would probably also encourage groups to be caster_heavy or melee_heavy, but I haven't thought it thru much.
    I don't really like the idea on its surface...but the fact that it would definitely spice up the 1-60 game would maybe make it worth doing. My only concern would be that it would make an incredibly easy game even easier...so I would have to implement a bunch of player_power reductions along with it.
    ...
    Make EQ difficult again!!
    ...