How inattentive devs are to Zek

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Kravin, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. KrakenReality Augur

    P99 Red is dead. PVP is dead and will forever remain dead. Blame yourselves for killing PVP. Even WoW abandoned PVP servers.
  2. Febb Augur

    They would have to dedicate one dev to do nothing but tune spells/AA's for PvP and I'm sure that they could only churn out those updates for one level every few months. It would take forever to get everything tuned correctly for all levels and then people would throw a fit because of <insert reason>. I doubt all the resources spent on this developer would turn a profit.

    This is the problem with PvP in EQ. You have to tune around PvE and PvP and that requires a bunch of time. Since PvE content is where all of the players are at, that's where all of the resources are and will stay.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. FawnTemplar Augur

    I've been reading all these posts and I do mean all of them, that includes the novels being written. It seems to me there are two main root causes to the demise of EQ PVP. First is the PVP system itself and how dmg is applied in PVP. That system makes PVP not fun thus people stop playing on PVP servers. Second is the toxic community that Zek has (full disclosure, I've never been to zek this is just a conclusion I'm reaching having read all the numerous threads). People get really tired of being griefed while trying to complete simple tasks or grind out exp. Also, there seems to be a lot of accusations of cheating going on. All these things make Zek not fun so people leave to a PVE server.

    The first root cause (PVP system) is not going to get fixed. Ngreth told you that flat out. The second is up to your community to fix and based on what I've seen from the forums, it doesn't seem like you (the PVP community) are all that invested in changing.

    So if neither problem is going to change or get fixed, why do you keep posting the same thing over and over on the boards? I don't understand screaming into the void when a dev has told you flat out they are not going to change anything about the pvp system.

    Lastly, I want to point out that the reasons people are giving you are not "excuses." Darkpaw at the end of the day is a business and unfortunately PVP does not have the player base to demand a significant portion of the already dwindling resources. The problem with listing all the things you listed (EQ2, find item, ect) is that each of those functions benefit WAY more people than currently play on Zek. You are asking for massive resources (relatively speaking) to benefit ~80 people. You can't possibly fail to see how unreasonable that is?
  4. Sokon Augur

    That's not what he said. He said they don't currently have a plan to address the problems. Does that mean they aren't ever going to chat about how they could address it? No, certainly not. Besides I feel pretty confident I adequately explained the problem at hand.

    And as I see other replies. No, a dev for Zek is not the answer. No tuning every skill/ability for PvP is not the answer and doesn't even make sense.

    This is simple math people. A damage reduction of all damage types is needed. It's not about certain abilities anymore, there's too many of them. It's not about rebalancing for PvP, the game is already balanced. It's about implementing straight out mitigation of all damage types in PvP, even if that means only on the Zek server or only if your name is Red.

    All damage in PvP needs to atleast be cut in half. I can't imagine how, with a little discussion between the devs themselves of how to do it, could be that difficult of a challenge. If it means entering in a new column and inputting in some new value for every skill, I'm sure an intern could do that in a day or 2. If not 2 mins... fill column... This stuff isn't rocket science, player damage versus player health pools is crazy.

    Or, just give us a permanent Buff on the zek server that reduces all damage from players and adjust that buff each expansion accordingly. I don't know, i'm sure there's a lot of ways it can be done. But not having a plan to implement at this time doesn't mean they aren't or can't be talking about one. Being pretty obvious once again now aren't we. Deerintheheadlights might be a good name change.

    Some people just need to be told to Back off. They need it spelled out for them.

    Stop clicking on forums posts you have no interest in, especially Zek's

    And besides, overall, none of you are realizing the thread's OP and why his complaint is valid, and things like this happen on Zek, as I detailed and explained to you in an earlier reply.
  5. FawnTemplar Augur

    If you want to talk about the OP there are a few things running through my head.

    First, frankly, I never see devs outside of the Beta server. So I only see devs in game for about a one month span once a year. Maybe you don't realize that's the case for those of us on Live but you already see devs way more than we do.

    This leads me to my next point, the fact that you see a dev THAT often banning/suspending people for the way they act in chat should be embarrassing. I know I would be embarrassed if that were the case for Xegony. This should give you *some* clue as to at least something you guys need to fix yourselves if you are really interested in bringing people back to Zek.

    Also, stop posting on public forums and then telling people to stop responding just because they don't happen to agree with you. Like it or not anything that darkpaw chooses to do with Zek will affect the rest of us even if we don't play on your server.

    What Ngreth said is a nice CS way of saying that they aren't going to fix that. Sorry.
    Duder, Gyurika Godofwar and Raccoo like this.
  6. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    I think you are missing the point. EQ has been around as a code base for 25 years or so and they have hit a lot of limitations on various game systems that were never dreamed possible when the game was initially designed. This game was designed as a 32 bit software and has run into a lot of limitations because of that over the years. I would be surprised if it can take full advantage of modern hardware and I am guessing it would take a significant amount of work in order for it to do that.

    When they added the ability to have bags larger than 10 slots I remember it was mentioned that almost every game file had to be touched in order to do that. To me that sounds like there would need to be a lot of time/money needed to be invested in order to modernize the game. EQ is still linked to directx 9 and updating that to a modern version is likely going to be a heavy lift as I remember it causing a lot of work when it was updated to that version.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yep, not only was the graphics engine updated, the coder (Steve Klug as I recall) had to rewrite the entire collision detection engine too, he also had rewritten a lot of the back end data structure.
    For a few months after the new engine was rolled out there were some funky collision detection issues that had to be ironed out. The rewrite & the fact that it was done during development of GoD caused a plethora of issues around being able to test stuff and was at least partially responsible for many of the initial problems GoD had at launch.
    Waring_McMarrin likes this.
  8. KrakenReality Augur

    No I didn’t miss your point. I addressed it by saying executive level decisions ruled against technical development and focused primarily on expanding the library of titles under SOE and DBG. Original design and intent isn’t relevant, when they had the money and resources to continually improve the game and build for the future. They chose to push off technical debt and move staff to various projects. Other studios have chose to do the opposite of the SOE and focus their attention on their major franchise, while previous management decided otherwise.
    Sokon likes this.
  9. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    I am glad you seem to know how much it would have taken for them to modernize and upgrade EQ and them having it when no one else outside of the company has that info.
  10. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    This is why I suggested an Expansion Locked PvP TLP Server. Lock it at PoP/LDoN and it would be an entirely different PvP experience from Live. If it's successful it would show that a modern PvP server could be a place of renewed interest/subs with some class balancing.

    This was my initial thought on how to accomplish a blanket DPS reduction. Add a permanent buff to Zek that reduces incoming melee damage by X% and incoming spell damage by X%. I'm not sure how easy it would be for them to differentiate from Player or NPC melee/spell damage. That would probably be the major obstacle to implement that. Either way, I think that would probably be the easiest way to accomplish it.
  11. KrakenReality Augur

    No, need to be snarky. It’s a well-known fact that they failed to back their flagship product. The game has generated $1billion of revenue in 20.75 years based on the publication date. Obviously, we know that the earlier years were the heavy earning years while the latter years have been at a slower pace. We’ve seen their operating expenses and financial summaries. They’ve had the the resources, but not the executive level desire to continue to reinvest.

    At this point, I can’t see them ever doing it but at the 5 year point following the fizzle of EQ2 or at the 10 year mark decisions could’ve been made. It’s fine to talk about that the original team didn’t plan for the longevity, but that absolves the management ignoring the signs that EQ is a worthy investment. It’s still the highest EBITDA in the DBG portfolio, and was the highest overall revenue generator until DCUO picked up a couple years ago.
  12. Andarriel Everquest player since 2000

    If theres so few people on zek why dont they just retire that server?

    Andarriel
    Duder and Jhenna_BB like this.
  13. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    Yes. 100%. Let's make these threads disappear into the ether. PVP is, has been dead and will be forever dead. It's time to move on. The glory days have past. Dev resources are being spent elsewhere, for the overall betterment of the game.

    The only good thing about PVP servers is that all the griefers were on their own prison colony away from civilized people. Now, there's so few of you left the colony can be closed down with minimal impact to EQ.

    Bye!!!!!!!!
    Andarriel and Cadira like this.
  14. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence

    Today, it was neat seeing "Zek Rising!!!" immediately followed by "Xegony Down", the day after the devs landed a proverbial double kick to Zek's groin in the Bug Report section.

    It seems as though the limit of Zek's "rise" shall remain how many people are willing to put up with the broken PvP system. Maybe now Zekians can turn their attention to an accord concerning universal rules of engagement or some such. That may be more realistic than convincing the larger "blue" EQ population there is something salvageable on Zek.
    Duder likes this.
  15. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    You win Forum Quest today!

    Bless you for saying it. I just didn't have the heart any longer.
  16. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    1.Devs are currently keeping one code base between all live and TLP servers.

    2.They are understaffed with a huge mountain of "Tech Debt" to repair for all servers.

    3.PVP will get no special attention, nor it's own code base. Period.

    But fear not Zekkers!

    Since I'm playing on Zek they won't dare shut it down. ;)
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  17. Gyurika Godofwar Augur

    Not to seem rude or disrespectful in any way but that ship has sailed. Getting worked up on here about it is just a waste of your time and energy. If you want PVP I would suggest playing other games where it is done properly and accepting EQ for what it is so that you can at least have fun doing that when you play.
    Raccoo and FawnTemplar like this.
  18. KrakenReality Augur

    PVP servers also kill themselves off. It's pretty much a waste of time in a format like EQ.
    Raccoo likes this.
  19. Sokon Augur

    Most of these bluebees had a defeatist attitude 20 years ago and the same today. None of them know Zek's population or amount of subscribers. 80 people in Zek gen chat is all they know. And they consider the 400ish in most other server gen chats to be so much more, as if we aren't a large percentage of any single population's server.

    Some, never advocate for anything positive towards Zek, never have, never will. it doesn't matter how much they hate that "their game" has PvP, we've been here a long time and we will be here forever. Nothing you can do about it, despite all the continued parading of reasonable excuses fed to the devs calling for permanent inaction of all Zek matters.

    These guys have been the exact same forever. Said the the same things, acted the same way. I don't expect them to change and I wouldn't ever try to convince them otherwise.

    But you know, when you are out at the bar with your girlfriend and some stranger comes up to you, barges in and starts spewing some bs, and you tell them to back off. What if they don't? Well, obviously at that point you punch them right in the face.

    Why people act socially inept on these forums in a way they wouldn't anywhere else in life is beyond me. It's their personal problem that they keep sharing with us.

    We just don't care what they think cause nothing they ever say or type in any way has ever supported Zek, why should we care?

    It's fun arguing, they think there's an argument to be made. They feel justified. They've always done the same thing before.

    "These are our public forums!"

    Interesting, cause Zek's public forum "The Arena" got removed, so looks like that isn't true. It might be a thread in public forums, but it's something they just can't help themselves but comment on, in a full spectrum of anything negative they can think of, have already said in the past or are regurgitating.

    Curiosity killed the cat.

    BACK THE F OFF.

    thanks for your consideration! not. Some need to be told twice.

    Hey look, someone gets it.


    You guys know, if there's a simple idea and something that can be implemented with little work, it might actually happen.

    As I have said previously, the approach eq PvPers have taken in the past was to complain about certain abilities/spells/hits/AAs, asking for nerfs to individual items at a time. That's a lot of work to address every item one by one and try to balance it. And really doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    In most all cases, everything already is balanced, for PvE. But, in MANY cases, everything just does too much damage in PvP. It shouldn't be such a hard concept for others to understand. Stop making or pretending it's so complicated.

    1. You balance everything for PVE.
    2. You mitigate damage of everything for PvP. A flat mitigation on everything to keep the highest damage items below 40%. Mob health vs. Player health should supply the necessary mitigation %.
    Reworking every skill/spell etc is a daunting task, would never be done and should never be asked for.

    To again address the OP. The OP got reported by an antagonist, a player on Zek not here to be part of a guild to help on raids, not here to be part of a team for PvP, only on the server for one shot, gank style trash(griefing, although the incorrect use of the term) PvP. Doesn't need anyone's help, already fully geared and all his toons are just alts of his blue raider anyways.

    They pvp this way, then they say stupid things in chat to piss people off, then they even go so far to report someone if they see an opportunity there aswell, they cause any trouble they can in any way possible. This is part of PvP for them, and they feel like they are winning when they do this. They don't care about the server, EQ pvp's population or anything else. They are just gaming the system in the current state that PvP is in now. And actions like this are a detriment to all of us.

    Nerfing all damage across the board, gets rid of these player types. So again, I have addressed the OP, and I have made recommendations to prevent that behavior that has affected him from reoccurring in the future. Problem, solution, typical QA stuff.

    Some people, although they have posted replies, have not contributed anything.

    Great job. same crap, different day.
  20. MyShadower All-natural Intelligence


    You have not so elegantly summarized the "PVP" situation and all these interrelated threads. Some form of
    is where they end up.

    Despite the game developers essentially abandoning PVP for so long, confirming that they have chosen to do so, coupled with overwhelming lack of interest from players, some push on. All the while, the bottom line is, you need to demonstrate PVP contributes to the bottom line, today.
    FawnTemplar and Raccoo like this.