please consider VT key revamp

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by brownings, Feb 18, 2021.

  1. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man

    But no issue in reducing the availability of the raid content to the point that keying is trivial.. got it.
  2. Vule_Xyrashue Journeyman


    Deathknell is about 500x more fun than VT.

    The Void doesn't count, that's not an endzone. Every other expansion has had an endzone with multiple fights that you progress through. The Void you zone in start the fight and within 20 minutes. Won't dispute that it's a terrible raid, there's no endzone in COTF. Might as well be RoF T5 and T6.

    NToV is terrible as well and most of the gear is trash also. The difference is NToV requires at least a partially lobotomized brain. In VT half the raid goes AFK during the boss fights and you can't even tell who was afk or not from the parse if ppl have autofire.

    VP is fun. The loot is terrible. If the content is the reward, VP is an above-average endzone.
  3. Zinth Augur

    there is a difference in getting to SEE content before it is DELETED and not wanting to do the effort to get in and see something there is there forever. So your reasoning is so far out........................
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Sebbun Augur


    I think the people complaining are the ones DOING the content and just ANNOYED that the content is gated behind hours and hours of mindlessly killing mobs over and over because of a low drop rate. FG has 7-8 mobs that drop the shard and drop it 4% of the time according to third party sites. I bard invis to each one, kill it, and move to the next one until they are all dead and I wait for a respawn. I do this for hours until I get the shards.

    It's not difficult, it's not fun and it's not even good EXP. It's just mindless.

    We've offered several solutions that can both keep the key and still make the climb to the content less time intensive.

    As far as picks, it's great that you can spawn them. We do sometimes too, but it makes no sense to have to spawn 5 spawns of FG to get a freaking shard when the real solution would be to increase the drop rate.

    And what would it hurt for big guilds? There's still incentive to make multiple picks to get it done faster. It just doesn't squat on those of us that don't have 72+ people capable and willing to spawn picks for HOURS at a time.

    It legit makes no sense the way it currently is setup.

    Again, great that you guys were able to organize and get it done so fast. But most of us couldn't care less. We just don't want the mindless state it currently is right now.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  5. Tweakfour17 Augur

    No it's not a joke, you're flagging 13 people yourself, of course its not going to be fun. Doing anything 13x is going to be tedious whether its VT keys, epics, PoP flagging etc.

    You spent 30 hours getting your entire 2+ groups into the end game zone. How many hours do you expect it will take to get into Time? Anguish? Korafax?

    And most if not all of the VT key IS soloable (orbs and emp rifts excluded) but at least some classes. Maybe a solo rogue is gonna have troubles but SKs/Shamans/Mages can and have done it. Are you going to do that week 1? No, you will get DPS raced out of there so fast. But once things slow down (ex: rolling an alt or main swapping or a late comer) you absolutely can solo most/all of it.
    Skuz likes this.
  6. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I agree. Increase FG if thats the issue, make it drop from any bugs. But don't remove it entirely or make it so you just need to walk by a bug to get one.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Machen New Member


    I'd rather they lower the pick threshold than increase the drop rate. Give people more access to camp the mobs. If you are killing all the spawns, it's an hour and a half on average per shard, maybe a little less. That's not unreasonable considering it's probably the most time consuming of all the shards.
    Tweakfour17 and Zinth like this.
  8. Zinth Augur

    I could definetly approve of that, no reason to dumb it more down... more camps is a good solution though
    Tweakfour17 likes this.
  9. Wyre Wintermute I'm just a butterly dreaming I'm a man


    I like how those who oppose this revel in their ability to complete the key, with little issue and relatively quickly. Mostly in part do to mechanics added to lessen the competition (AoC, Pickzones etc...). At the same time they'll use excuses for not changing it, because they don't think people should be somewhere earlier than X amount of time or easier.

    So like, 1 week is adequate delay, but there's some fear of launch day access. If it were proposed that after 2 weeks, the key wouldn't be required, they'd scream bloody murder.

    They act as if it's for the betterment of the guild or community... but it is not. It's that they want more time/access to content than others. It's really that simple. the more they reply, the more obvious their intent and misrepresentation is.

    Lessen pick zone threshold (because "we" have the ability to spawn them easier), rather than increase drop rate or the mobs that can drop the shard.

    Don't remove or reduce the requirement for getting the key because people will ignore all other content and just farm end zone day 1, but it's fine if we can do it in the same week as launch.

    Don't trivialize or remove the quest (group portion) but it's fine that pick zone farming and AoC's help us by trivializing access to content.


    The mental gymnastics are just beyond words. Once again, it's just the hypocrisy of "I got mine." shining through.

    I mean, it's like they feel that Velious opened up and people only farmed NToV, AoW, Yelniak, etc.. because why do any of the other content? Sleeper's isn't the big bad end zone of Velious. The warders don't drop the top items. Vulak does and NToV is the pinata.
  10. sieger Augur

    This is where I stopped reading your post FYI, since anyone with that opinion has nothing to say that I need to read.
    Barraind likes this.
  11. sieger Augur

    The only person I see in this thread talking about people "reveling in their ability to finish the key" is Wyre. No one is claiming finishing a VT key is peak gaming. But I've done it like 4 times in the past 5 years, and 100%--I would enjoy Luclin less if the VT key quest was removed. It's not about how "in my day" this or that happened, I'm saying I personally would enjoy Luclin less if the key was removed. You can write all the crybaby screeds you want after this, the point is at least some people do enjoy the keying process for what it is. If you don't that's fine, but I'm saying unequivocally it is just not true that everyone hates it, that the only reason people advocate for it is to force subsequent players to do the same key they did etc etc. Just not true. There's people who like the keying process, you're not one of them, but the devs should always lean to trying to follow the original design when reasonably able to do so, on the TLPs.
    Zinth likes this.
  12. Machen New Member


    You're the only hypocrite in this thread. You posted that no one enjoys doing the key. I posted that I enjoyed it, and explained exactly why, and explained why I am against changing it to remove the key. My reasons are entirely consistent and logical. Then you moved the goalposts, repeatedly.

    Done conversing with you about this.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Nah, you're wrong here, just plain wrong.

    I am 100% against removing the key quest or altering it too much at all, this is a fundamental thing people get wrong - removing these is removing part of what makes getting to those end zones feel rewarding, it removing some of what makes EQ EQ.

    I am definitely in favour of speeding up the process of acquiring key parts on TLP because they have accelerated unlocks, increasing drop rates, lowering pick thresholds, having instances in which these drop - all 3 do the same thing in making getting the key faster without removing the actual key quest or process.

    VP key was speeded up in the right way, VT key can be too - but removing the process is doing it all wrong, it's why I hate the idea of a "no flags no keys needed" TLP which crops up from time to time.
  14. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Here's a question for Wyre and the others who want the key removed. If the key was added to slow down players back in the day due to VT not being finished, would you be ok if VT itself didn't open until whatever % of "in era" it was originally complete and available? ex: VT wasn't completed until 4 months into Luclin's original release, so on TLP VT should not even be available until at least a month in. Would that change how you view the keying?
    Zinth and Skuz like this.
  15. Ruination Elder

    If you don't enjoy keying then don't do it and just do the other raid zones, there is lots of content in Luclin outside VT, some of that content is keying for VT.

    If you have a guild that even wants to raid VT then they are also capable of raiding for shards, add dkp incentives for those who already got their shards since you likely have people in your guild who put forth the effort to get their keys already.

    Help each other or maybe join a different guild, one that helps one another. I mean why even be in a guild if you don't help each other? You might as well play a single player game at that point, some of them have keying quests though so if you go this route do some research ahead of time.
  16. Lejaun Augur

    Sounds great. Open up VT to everyone after one month of the TLP reaching Luclin, open up VT to those who complete the quest earlier as soon as they complete it. Try-hard guilds get in immediately, casual guilds get to give it a go a month later without having to spend hours camping a zone they probably won't be raiding very often in 3 months anyways.
  17. Tweakfour17 Augur

    That wasn't the scenario. The scenario is no one gets into VT for the first month of the TLP to mirror it "not being finished upon Luclin release".
  18. Lejaun Augur

    Why would it have to only the scenario you presented? Seems to be set up only to create conflict. Members of try-hard guilds in general would be against having to wait, members of the lazyboy guilds in general would be against the key quest as is. Why couldn't there be a balance of the two?

    (Yes, yes....there of course will be those of the top guilds who would be happy to see the quest removed, and those of the casual guilds who want the key to remain...but this is a statement of generality.)
  19. Lejaun Augur

    Going by the scenario of you could only get keyed for a zone based on a timeline of when it was done originally, does that also mean you can only kill Lord Nagafein or Avatar of War or whatever only after about the same time it was done originally? Seems to open up a lot of can of worms.
  20. sieger Augur

    This isn't a terrible idea, you could do similar for PoP flagging to be honest. It would still create the sort of environment I've always enjoyed, where you have a big organized guild effort to get keyed ASAP, but it'd have a "fail safe" for people who just aren't able or willing to do that.