Rangers and wisdom/mana/FT

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Malkavius, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. Indigo_Quarmite Augur

    If you don't have FT, mount, a decent mana pool, focus effects, or your raid is lower dps you will have mana issues in Luclin. Sure if you are full Velious geared and have a fair amount of FT plus mental clarity and a mount you won't have issues.

    OP seems to be rolling a new toon and asked about creation points. Mana can't hurt at this stage of the game for an ungeared new toon if they plan on getting 60 EQ/AM3 as soon as possible. They probably would have some issues. If twinking, get some focus effects and FT, it helps.

    Most of my post was correcting the guy who said it wasn't worth it to use these spells, when in fact, they are a DPS boost.
  2. Crabman Augur

    Stat _____Total _____ Shoot ______Dot ______Dirdmg
    Damage _2209202 __1922219 ___180234 ____103842
    DPS_____ 160.1 _____139.3______13.1 _______ 7.5


    Theres an example of last weeks VT raid. I have full dps aa's as well as ID3/BA3. So clearly bow dps is way way more but an extra 20dps is very nice to have for a 5 hour vt clear.

    4700 mana with FT8 and the only time I was close to oom was tab dotting on trash pulls. On single bosses my mana would go back up even while keeping drones up and Call of Flame on cd.
  3. Ronluwen Elder

    It's hard to tell if people are being serious here or not. But if you want to maximize your dps, use firestrike and bees. You will smash other rangers and utilize most of your mana pool on any fight that has length at all.
    Zinth likes this.
  4. Anduven Journeyman

    Allow me to clarify a few important points so you are less triggered:
    1. In Luclin, spells become a minor DPS boost rather than a major one. From about 1/3rd of our DPS to 1/10th. So running out of mana is much less of a deal-breaker for the parse.
    2. Most of the time, trash mobs die too fast for spells to meaningfully increase DPS. In fact, if you time it wrong and miss an attack round, you may even lose DPS by casting. So you will mainly be casting on bosses.
    3. Because you're mainly casting on bosses, you will virtually never run out of mana with raid buffs. Luclin gear with focus and AA, long with KEI, spirituality, and bard songs are overkill for spells you get in classic/kunark.
    4. Given all of the above, my conclusion remains the same: ranger mana pool is not an issue beginning in Luclin. It is a much bigger deal leading up to it.
  5. Fluid Augur

    Solo yes, group not so much. Most of the advice is pointed to end game in either raiding or AA experience group.

    I mean for a sustained DPS group with 5 Monks, Ranger will pretty much be at the bottom of all parses regardless and would be better off Snaring, buffing, healing, what have you.

    If I had the choice between a Wis juiced Ranger casting until oom using a crappy bow or a Ranger that didn't cast but had a great bow, I'd take the one with great bow.

    The Focus Effects that are in play now completely swamp anything a couple of Wis would add. Affliction Efficiency, Burning Affliction, et al add maybe 20% to the effectiveness of spells. If it comes down to the Ranger has to burn, I would chose one with Focus Effects over a couple of extra points put into Wisdom at character creation.

    It may change for a solo Ranger just because of a tough MOB here and there, but for a couple of hours of experience grouping or raiding go for [max bow, max focus, be useful doing what needs to be done]. Once again, you may even need to bash to interrupt a spell casting MOB, so have a set of one handed weapons, shield, a two handed weapon, and that great bow people keep talking about. Catch as catch can with the other equipment as I wouldn't expect a Ranger to handle tanking in anything other then a group with 5 Wizards. Just checked prices and a Shissar bow is selling for ~1,500 pp on Rizlona. That should be chump change by the time a Ranger is worth having around.
  6. Crabman Augur

    Dot everything in VT... you'll run outa mana
  7. Ronluwen Elder

    4300 mana and full mana regen raid buffs and I'm under 50% mana EVERY boss fight except khati and OOM a large portion of them.
    Zinth likes this.
  8. Ronluwen Elder


    Solo ranger? The heck. Grouping or raiding, get focus for dots and nukes and use your mana. Your dps will increase I promise you.
    Zinth likes this.
  9. Machen New Member


    This, but also. Wisdom/mana pool only matters on fights that you go from FM to OOM. On a sustained grind, it doesn't matter at all what your pool started at, only how fast you regen mana. In most raid situations, your mana pool doesn't matter much either. If your guild is stopping before a boss to let everyone med to full before engaging, maybe the mana pool will help you individually a bit. But your raid is leaving a lot of overall raid dps on the table doing that.
  10. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Casting firestrike actually lowers your DPS in most situations when you have overhaste and good atk gear.

    They're scenarios in which firestrike is worth casting, but they're mostly limited to not having good ATK gear or ADPS buffs.
  11. Crabman Augur

    100% True. Call of Flame, yes. Firestrike, Never.
  12. Ronluwen Elder


    Incorrect. It's hard to tell if rangers on this server go out of their way to spread misinformation or if they just never parse anything out ever.

    Is there another ranger smashing you on every parse? It's not bad RNG, they cast and you don't.
    taliefer likes this.
  13. Crabman Augur

    LOL... casting a 4 second (2.8 sec with spell haste and aa's) to do a max of 506 (again with the correct focus) is absolutely not worth it if you have even a blessed faydark thunderbolt or better... with a 35 delay bow, 225% haste and a fleeting quiver, parse showed that my bow shots were about 1 every 1.3 seconds. So for sake or arguing firestrike, we will say 2 shots missed to cast. even tho it looks to be a bit more. My average hit was 333 throughout an entire raid night so both trash and motm mobs. This means that if im missing 2 shots to cast firestrike thats an average of 666dmg to do maybe 506 if it doesnt get resisted.

    So it is absolutely NOT worth casting firestrike if you have a real bow and some aa's
  14. Machen New Member


    That is not how it works, because of the way hybrid melee/casting works. If you are casting right after bow shot, as you should be, you will miss just over 1 shot.

    Bow shot #1 0.0
    Bow shot #2 1.3
    Bow shot #3 2.6
    Bow shot #4 3.9

    vs
    Bow shot #1 0.0
    Casting 0.1
    Spell finishes 2.9
    Bow shot #2 3.0
    Bow shot #3 4.3
  15. Crabman Augur

    It was a 15000 second parse in which I also cast 241 Drones of doom (2.2 sec cast) while shooting. Im sure there was slight down time of not shooting during that, So I was just using 2 casts per shot as an average. Also while looking at the parse, i cast Call of flame 388 times which did an average of 229dmg (max 247 even while using ID3) - 92.5% of max dmg. So the average of Firestrike would be 390. So even if casting slows you down as much as 17% then its not worth it
  16. Ronluwen Elder

    Learning to cast firestrike correctly can add 30ish dps while losing little bow dps. Get focus gear. Practice on test server. Smash other rangers.

    You still won't always beat wizards that know what they're doing, but you'll compete all of the time, not just when TS is up.

    Last night on a VT clear I was second on the overall boss combined, and that's after a funky pull and me eating ramp and dying on one boss. Overall combined I was 1st on the parse. Rangers not casting firestrike don't even compete with me.
    Machen likes this.
  17. Crabman Augur

    firestike... really? do you have the parse by any chance? id love to see bowdps / dotdps / dd dps.

    you have avatar bow or what?
  18. Ronluwen Elder

    Ranger:
    DPS by type
    Total: 175.5
    Shoot: 141.2
    DD: 21.2
    Dot: 13.1

    There were 3 mobs up in open world last night. So this has a couple hundred mobs + 3 bosses. Me using firestrike sparingly on trash clears knowing we won't have much time to med.

    Tannar:
    DPS by type
    Total: 216.6
    Shoot: 161.6
    DD: 37
    Dot: 18

    This has the 3 bosses combined, one of which I used TS on.
  19. Ronluwen Elder


    I got bow of shadow last night about half way through the raid. But the parses haven't changed. I topped emp using firestrike, I topped Seru using firestrike. I am consistently top 10 or higher using firestrike. Other rangers aren't keeping up with me unless they adapt.

    I would imagine that using call of fire and drones your still mid tier dps. Getting smashed by the decent wizards and struggling to even keep pace with monks/rogues. Probably losing to them more often than not.

    I also had supbar support on my parses. So no shaman ancient avatar, no savagry. In our VT run I was 2nd boss combined and 1st including trash.
  20. Ronluwen Elder

    I was actually just looking at the parse. I was 3rd on bosses combined with 2 wizards ahead of me. And 2nd on total combined with 1 wizard ahead of me. I'm probably 1st on total combined without the death.