Whats a good 3 box to roll with a SK these days in light of some of the changes to the classes in the past few recent years? I had thoughts like SK/shaman/mage SK/druid/enchanter SK/cleric/wiz SK/shaman/bard However, Im open to any ideas of what would be a fun and productive box. Thanks!
You might want to include a little more information. Are you playing on a server with mercs? Which server are you going to play on? Any of those combinations would be ok with mercenaries. I think bards are overrated, but it is probably because I can't play one well post 85. I think the SK/Shaman/Bard is best. However, SK/Sham/Mage will give you some utility spells.
The SK is powerful enough, that, barring wanting to do really bleeding-edge content as a three box, I'd say just play the two other classes you enjoy the most.
It all really depends on how you want to play and what you are going to put into it. For example, if you are a raiding main SK then what you box doesn't matter. The SK slow belt will be sufficient with 1-2 cleric mercs. So, if you want to box 2 mages for the ease of boxing, you can and will be fine. If you are not going to gear your tank well, then you will benefit from a good quality slow, so SHM or ENC in the combo would be best. Bard, BST, etc could slow sufficiently as well. Unless you have some reason you would want to do SK, CLR, WIZ then that would be the weakest of the choices. You lack track, slow, and cleric is bad DPS with cleric mercs being the strongest of the mercs and wizard doesn't have enough extra DPS over a mage to give up all that utility (pet backup tank, CoH is wonderful while boxing, etc). If you want to maximize the synergy of your team, then Some combination of SK, BRD and SHM is ideal, and you could swap out the BRD or SHM for a BST, Rog, Ranger, zerker, etc. If you want to main the SK and do as little as possible with the boxes, then the easiest to play would be SK, ENC, MAG with CLR, ROG and CLR/ROG mercs. ENC can target the SK and cast AE mez so CC is easy. 1/4-1/3 of the mage DPS comes from the pet. ENC and mage have good synnergy together and if you screw up just turn on pet taunt while you recover. Personally if I was doing SK I would probably do ENC and DRU but I main ENC and box MAG (as backup tank) and CLR (legacy toon, I lack track, snare and ports), so I am a bit biased and grass greener. I'm willing to give up some tanking and DPS for quality of life stuff.
Its gonna be on live servers with 3 mercs, yeah. I like the idea of Druid Enchanter for having all that utility, ports, and track. However, I am a little concerned about a lack of DPS. Would you use wizard mercs with this combo? Im hearing the rogue mercs are vastly superior right now.
I like the idea also of SK shaman mage with 3 pets....sounds fun. Has more dps and a backup tank. Better heals, but no CC.
Bards are great...in a full group. Bards are an absolute waste in a three box. Of the options you mentioned, SK/CLR/WIZ is the most powerful. Then fill it out with melee DPS mercs.
SK CLR WIZ eh? Interesting. Would a shaman be better to boost melee dps mercs or is cleric just such good healing that it is faceroll?
Can’t speak for TBL & TOV, but I’ve 3 boxed SK/SHM/WIZ from VoA through RoS and it is an extremely effective trio. The wizards sustained dps(as a box) starts to fall off around TBM while the shamans gets a huge bump around the same time. I don’t find I ever need CC on my SK in the content mentioned (again, can’t speak for TBL/TOV yet) and in the rare circumstance I do, the shaman rebuke AA is more than sufficient (aoe root punt). I did get a wild hair and lvl a zerker box on the wiz account (raid weapon/group geared) and while his sustained dps is higher than the wizard( he has almost no hero AA, missing tons of +atk, dps could be much higher). I found the difference in dps vs loss of utility, squishieness(wiz is a tank compared to him) and positioning to not be worth the hassle. Mind you, the wizards dps could be much higher if I micromanaged my rotation better or set an aoe rotation (I tend to always have 4-14 mobs on me at once), but I found it to convoluted to be worth the trouble. I also leveled a Druid on the shamans account at one point (better support for the wiz), but found the mana management issues to be to annoying to manage(shm has near infinite sustain, Druid can heal for days, but when you start dpsing... OOM!). All of this is from the perspective of playing on a truebox(phini) server however and you may find it much easier to manage on live. That being said, my SK is capable of an extreme amount of dps and I found the more nit picky micromanagement you have to deal with while boxing, lowers your performance on the primary toon(mainly dps) and I find it less fun. Wizard is stupidly easy to box (I imagine a mage is the same, never tried one though) and provides extreme mobility (like I mentioned, I don’t CC stuff) with instant and reg Evac, Ports, anchor ports, teleport bind, sec/tri bind points etc. I typically run 1 cleric merc, 2 wiz mercs (rogues are better now, but 2 wiz mercs trigger alliance), and swap them out based on availability of other players (my fav is a cleric buddy that boxes a bard + more dps to replace my boxes). All that being said after leveling 2 other boxes to try and replace the wizard, I found for my play style, he is irreplaceable, YMMV. As for the shaman vs enchanter, an enchanter would be better for the wiz, but I’ve found to really get the benefit of the chanter, it’s very button heavy and playing 3 button heavy classes on a truebox server just isn’t doable at the pace I’m accustomed to(2 speeds, balls to the wall and afk in a corner). The Shaman AA Malo/slow aa are also 1 min/30s cool downs (none on single tar) vs like 3 mins (iirc) on the chanter one. Shaman also has great group heal potential with recourse and splash(not an issue if real or box cleric present) and can dps like a champ if you’re aggressive (cycle xtar button, 2x combo dot button, combo+ 2 magic dots, full dot load out button for bosses). Hope some of that info helps, GL.
Wizard mercs are in a very bad place right now. They are doing half the DPS as players. The Rogue mercs on the other hand are performing on par with casual players and are a fair bit behind the raiders. How you want to play has a lot to do with your decision. Yes, SK, ENC, DRU would be a the lower end of the DPS, but it has a lot of utility and would be much more suited to dungeon style play. Moving around, pulling crowded areas, etc. If you are just going to sit in one static camp and chain pull then this might not be the best choice for you. Personally I am not a supporter of the SK, CLR, WIZ idea because you have no real slow and cleric mercs do a good job. In ToV T1 I don't even have to cast with my cleric even without slow. My cleric merc will keep my warrior merc up. Yes cleric is very powerful but so is SK, SHM and DRU so it makes more sense to me to use a cleric merc with a different priest. Also there is no synnergy in SK, CLR and WIZ. DRU boosts wiz and SHM boosts SK/rogue mercs. SK CLR WIZ could be a good choice on TLP with no mercs but on Live I just don't see that being the best choice. Also not sure I understand how bards are a waste in a 3-box? a 3-box is a full group, and Bard DPS is ridiculous right now.
If playing the shaman/bard thing....makes it tempting to switch the SK to a warrior. Partly so you can really play the bard to its potential with pulling, ccing, etc. Also because bard shaman adds a ton of DPS to the warrior.
SK, shaman, bard 100% the most powerful set up you’re gonna get with a SK tank. Couple them with 2 melee mercs and a cleric merc or 3 melee mercs and you’ll plough through anything.
I think its more a preference in pace and playstyle. I wouldn't main xyz tank just because i can use xyz skillset on a box more etc. The boxes are there to support the main character, not the other way around (imo). If you're overly concerned about being able to do bard tricks for example, why not just main a bard? For example: Ive had a very strong suspicion that swapping my wizard or zerker in a 3 box setup to a bard, would be ≥ dps contribution of either of them between the bard, its adps and swapping to rogue mercs. The reason i haven't done it is i have a plethora of bard mains or boxes i can group with regularly, im grinding out the last couple % of Artisans Prize stats and i really just am not motivated to play catchup on the bard (heros AA, epic, clickies, Dicho etc). Also as mentioned in my previous post, the loss of ports/evacs would mean i would have to adjust my overall play style and while i believe that adjustment could likely be superior in some ways, i view it as less fun. Anyway, my point is, if you want to main a tank, pick the one in which you think you'll enjoy the most, their play styles are distinct. Warriors are more passive, Sk and Paladin are more active. SK is highly aggressive and you're rewarded for playing that way (and to some extent punished for being timid) while paladins are more supportive and altogether stronger at the play it safe game. Whatever dps gains you get on the warrior from bringing a bard along, you'll likely get more as an SK (based on content ive experienced up to RoS and only IF you're active enough on it) and a lot of the "bard tricks" you would use the bard for in a war/shm/brd setup, just arent necessary to perform as an sk/shm/brd setup. That being said, if your idea of fun is being able to methodically plan your approach and focus more attention on the box toons, and go at more relaxed pace, maybe the war setup(or Pally, they are amazing) would be more fun for you? If you want to roll up into room full of mobs, pull everything and roll your face on the keyboard while things explode, knowing one .5s misstep on your part will result in a super fun rez/rebuff cycle, then SK imo is where its at. YMMV
The performance benefits are not enough to justify the impacts to play. Both tanks will perform fairly similarly in DPS and in tanking. Play style is the deciding factor here. Warriors can tank named and raids better, but Knights are actually easier to heal in group content because they help, assuming you are casting. Pallies are a little lacking in DPS outside of undead content but otherwise the classes are going to DPS pretty similar. SK is a top choice because it can FD, snare and other such utility. Pallies with root, group heals, cure and paci. But warriors are like clerics in they are singularly focused. But with a bard in the group handling pulling and CC it's doesn't matter much. The only way the tank choice matters is if you choose 2 boxes that are dead weight. Tank, ROG, ZER for example lacks a good puller, so a knight would be a better choice than a warrior, point is, if you cover the needed abilities by the group as a whole, the individual toons you play doesn't matter. Not sure which trio you are asking about, but if it is with the CLR and WIZ then no, War would be a worse choice than SK, because pretty much everyone in the group has a single focus and you completely lack all support roles, which are the one thing mercs can't do. I guess CLR could paci stun and root but why box a cleric as a paladin.
I've done SK/Shaman/Bard for a long time. If I could go back I would switch to Enchanter/Druid though, or maybe even just a SK/Druid two box. Druid ports/succor because traveling with 3 chars is a massive PITA. Also having to be in melee range to do dps. If you aren't using third party help though Shaman/Bard will be your best bets since they require the least amount of clicking to be helpful.
I main ENC but for boxing one try this trick. /tar <Name of tank> /cast # (targeted AE mez spell) Yes, you can AE CC by casting on the tank. or you can assist the tank and AE CC from that. You can use a tash totem to nearly eliminate mez resists without casting tash or use the glance line of AE mez. Remember glance has a very high chance of mezing the ENC who casted it. Playing an SK with great AE hate, I would consider... /alt act 1125; Bite of Tashani /cast # (PBAE mez spell) /tar <Name of tank> /cast # (targeted AE mez spell) This avoids the mez chances of glance. More importantly it frees up the tash totem slot for Twincast/MR aura which will boost SK DPS. There are a lot of variations of what I am talking about here. The point being that the proper mix of our tash abilities (targeted, PBAE, Totem), our mez lines (PBAE, Targeted on tank AE, Beam), and our slows (Targeted, Enveloping helix AE slow) can take the ENC support role from a lot of keypresses to just a few. After that, it's just a hotkey for our 3 dots, pet attack, and a hotkey for nukes using proper pauses. So 1 hotkey... Pet attack, constriction, coil and grip (our 3 DoT lies) Hotkey 2... Nukes at proper pauses and CC / slow keys as it works for your group design. So unlike a bard that has to be positioned for melee and has short duration slow/CC, ENC can do everything without moving from at most 4 hotkeys. Not sure on druids, but ENC can be made easy.
Is there not a single target Tash AA? I'm just returning to the game and run an SK/Dru/Enc/Mage combo and trying to figure out the best mez Macro for my chanter. I have been playing in GMM and using the Bite of Tashani AA will sometimes aggro mobs that are not hostile and give me multiple adds. For the chanter, my hotkeys look like this: Hotkey 1 : Pet attack, Bite of Tashani, AA Single target slow, Mana drain dot, Drown dot. Hotkey 2: Nuke, Nuke, Nuke Nuke Hotkey 3: "UH OH I pulled more than one mob AA" I was doing Xtar 2 (leaving my top Extended Target slot for Tank's target), Bite of Tash and then Delude (I'm lvl 108). I took off BoT because I was aggroing other mobs. Anyone have any recommendations for me to clean this up and perhaps make it more efficient? I like the idea of targeting the tank and casting the Wave Mez Running Mana Recip and Twincast Aura Thanks!
We have lots of options and what I suggested was just one of many. /Xtar 2 /cast mez is an excellent hotkey. Your DPS hotkeys are also good. We have a lot of mez spells. Single. Low resist single. Twinscast mez. AE mez. Low resist AE mez. Splash mez. PBAE mez. Beam AA Mez. Defensive ward mez. Personally I really like splash mez, but that's a bad one for a box. I don't use low resist much because you can mez yourself with them, but they are exceptional. If you use Glance targeting your tank and kleep your tank away from you ENC box you wont ever mez yourself. Keep using your mez hotkey for singles and use AE glance targeting the tank for multiples. Then you don't need to AE tash. Glance has a long refresh delay, so have a backup plan for mez resists and breaks on multiples. Don't forget beam of slumber and and defensive ward. We only have AA for AE tash, so just use the spell for singles. You wont need to tash multiples if yusing glance mez. One thing to remember is that AA are not effected by the spell cooldown, so Tash, slow, next spell is pretty efficient. We also have a lot going on with our DoTs and auras... I don't use the Mind DoT line as much as the constriction line. Constriction reduces magic resistance and mob accuracy, though mind is better DPS. This depends a lot on how well your tank tanks. If your tank is doing well, I'd open with strangle as it is the best DPS, then use mind. If you tank is struggling, then I would open with constriction and then use strangle. Using all 3 is good on longer fight like named, but maybe not mana efficient on shorter fights. Don't forget mental contortion AA with your burns for named. For nukes, Our best spell from the previous expansion is our second best nuke. So Mind Drift and Mind slash, however, mind slash can't from Greater Gift of Mana (GGOM) for 115 spells, so it is much less mana efficient. For burning, I just drift, grip, grip, drift. But when not burning, Mind drift, appropriation (returns mana to group), assault. Once you can proc beguiler's synnergy, from mind slash or mind drift, etc, you want to proc that as often as you can. Synnergy is huge group DPS. So if you don't have enough AA to proc it from drift, you need to be casting slash or whatever will proc it. The same applies to your mages Conjure synnergy. For burning, you are going to use Focus arcanum, Illusions of Grandure, Improved Twincast and Chromatic haze together. Haze only lasts 18 seconds, so you can cast those 3 first whiel you get spun up, then hit haze mid fight for 2 big nukes. Your druid is going to use greatwolf with these. YOur mage burn is going to be heart of skyfire, frenzied burnout, Focus of Arcanum, Servant of Ro, host of elements. Also remember the spell cooldown I said, so your mage can squeeze in force of elements between spell casts when you need to get the burn going hard. Your secondary burn is Spire with Calculated insanity. YOu can spire with the mage when ENC spires if you want. Those are the correct auras. Lessons only works on XP not AA XP so don't use it unless people are leveling. The Rank 3 is easy to get now so get the rank 3 Lessons and the rank 3 mage pet aura (helps your ENC animation). You can use mana regen aura if your druid dies or something, and you can use the rune aura if you tank needs help on named, or if adds are picking off oyur boxes, but generally MR and Twincast are best.
