Pally Vs SK in (Velious, Luclin, PoP)

If you're beating any Monk, Rogue, Ranger, Zerker, Mage or Wizard in almost any expansion outside of Kunark or very very short 7th+ht fights they're bad at the game or massively undergeared. Being able to do 30 seconds of good burst DPS ever 4 hours doesn't make you a good DPS... even for a tank.

Supporting Siirx's comment - The reality is that SK is an extremely high effort and gear dependent class. This stratifies the performance of the distribution of SK's on a server. Elite SK's can provide TOP DPS in early expansions and can be a consistent mid-high DPS in later expansions, with situational parse topping while also providing good solo, group, and off-tanking options. It's part of why its my favorite class in EQ.

Really elite SK's can situationally accomplish a lot, the list of those guys is very short. I don't consider myself to even be in this category, although I have had the pleasure of working with a few.

I caveat this statement that I have played a lot of SK in early - mid expansions and not a lot of TRUE "later" expansions (like 10+ expacs out)...thats all unknown territory to me. But within the realm of "popularity in TLP" windows -- I think my comments are valid.

This stratification is what causes an inconsistency in experience of peoples opinions of SK's. If you consistently group over your TLP experience with people like Zama, Korrupt, Foaming, Sazzabi, Taladir, and Dranix -- you will find your experience different. Even within the elite group we have our differences in philosophy - you will hear some people gripe that Zama is a glass cannon, which I probably adhere closer to as well, versus a Korrupt -- and someone like a Sazzabi finding that situational balance -- I would often match or sometimes beat Zzabi on a parse, but he is clearly the better overall SK. So then better becomes a nuance of what lens you are grading.

I consider myself the same way. Good but not elite. I've played with "elite" Shadowknights, so I could never put myself in that group.

I'm guessing the makeup of the raids I've participated in over the last few years on TLPs was much different than Waiting's. MIM has been a very well geared guild, and while I haven't beaten a monk or zerker on the parse in a very long time (since well before there were berserkers), I'm no slouch. Monks will about double my damage, but we didn't have 10 monks, which is why I made parses a lot of the time. I'd never say an SK was a DPS class (past Kunark anyway), but that's not even the topic. It's: Who is better, SK or Pally?

Loaded question.

It's been said before in this thread. SK is a better damage dealer. SK doesn't have to change targets to supplement his self healing. They're equals in defensive capabilities, with paladin stuns maybe giving a paladin a break in incoming damage while an SK relies on lifetap procs to offset incoming damage. Paladin is a superior healer (considering an SK can't heal directly). Paladins have more utility with res and HP buffs. SK's utility is in pulling and snaring, if it's snarable, I can single pull it. SK pets can shield him and provide a smidge more HP and do a little bit of added DPS. Neither class is a slouch at aggro generation, I'd give the edge to SK, and when SK gets their AoE aggro line, it's no contest when trying to control multiple mobs.

Which is better? Personal preference for me says Shadowknight. I know people that play paladins that wouldn't even consider playing an SK. To them, the pally is better. The answer is: Play what is the most fun or you.

I didn't pick SK to top parses. I picked it for it's utility, tanking ability, and the fun I have while playing the class.

Brant is a professional contrarian, hope ya'll are rdy to go another 5 pages.

lose weight fatboi

You used to be a relatively normal person, what happened?

Lots of classes can parse well when the raid optimizes a single player to parse well to the detriment of overall raid dps. If your necros were pumping a SK instead of the best wizard in this situation, sure the SK will parse well but your overall raid dps will be less than it could have been. For that matter, the necro would have added a lot more total dps by simply tapping himself instead of pumping you so you could tap more.

whats your excuse then...you always parsed horrible on, and begged for dps groups...got them and got beat by all the melees

They stayed on the forums too long.

Through most expansions it's pretty simple.

Sk's= Higher DPS. Decent utility with snare and FD pull.

Pally's= More group utlity and better mitigation on anything that can be stunned. They are also far superior ramp tanks due to a broken item dropping off a groupable mob in Luclin. If you're fighting undead a pally has the ability to have comparable DPS to an SK, but that's fairly rare, especially in raiding situations.

In Velious/Luclin Sk's shouldn't regularly be topping parses ever. It doesn't mean that the stars won't align on occasion and a mob gets burned down quickly and an SK tops, but they should be behind Monks, Wizards, Rogues easily. Rangers and Mages should beat them more often than not.

That's why my preference has always been Pally. They start off weak in classic, but get progressively better, and by Luclin I think they are one of the best classes at what they are supposed to do, which isn't DPS. They mitigate damage and hold aggro. Like a tank.

However, if you're talking 2 box only. SK/Shaman or SK/Ranger are probably the two best duo's you could have. SK/Shaman being the slightly better of the two, Even though Ranger should be slightly higher sustained dps.