Fixed Internally Coldain Ring #10 War bug/exploit

Discussion in 'Resolved' started by yepmetoo, Dec 7, 2020.

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  1. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    But let's just stop beating around the bush and get to the point.

    This event was designed this way because the dwarfs can die before you get to hand in the head for their individual reward.

    It was NEVER intended to get more than one of ANY of the items the dwarfs grant.

    It was INTENDED that if you performed this raid CORRECTLY, you get the maximum reward of ONE of each UNIQUE item.

    Bring on any dev who claims to have designed this to give multiple identical rewards, and I'll get them to admit they did it wrong for what was intended.
  2. Triconix Augur

    Not according to the devs, which is all that matters.

    If you cannot comprehend how it's completely different, there's really no reason to continue this.

    Handing in a ring and getting a one click DA statless item for only the person who completed the ring quest =/= handing in a head, dropping the reward, and repeating this in rapid succession for 5 minutes to get as many raid equivalent items as possible for a bunch of people. This is what you're actually using as justification for precedence? Actually, the fact that you complete this entire quest and the only secondary reward you get is a one time DA click that you have to keep going back to Thurg for it is pretty darn indicative of how stingy EQ devs are with their loot rewards. Thanks for the assist there.

    The whole process of getting multiple items is so bizarre and unorthodox that it's obviously a bug and exploit for anyone with any sense of morality and class. There is no event in all of EQ that awards an entire raid an item of raid level power if and only if you can cycle through hand ins fast enough. It's just nonsense to think that's normal.

    EQ has historically been very stringent risk vs reward metrics. For one event to be completely against years and years of precedence, it just doesn't add up. Only recently has EQ been more gratuitous towards its raiders in rewarding loot. I've said it before, the amount of loot we get in raids now should be the amount of loot we used to get while the amount of loot we used to get should be what we get now. Anyways, some of the hardest bosses in the Velious era only drop 3-4 items at the most for a time a raid was 72 people. Heck, there was so much backlash on how horrible the risk vs reward was in Velious that a vast majority of the gear was re-itemized (check out original version of Blade of Carnage. It was absolute junk compared to the difficulty of AoW).
  3. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    The truth is what matters. Which is why i'm asking the dev to reconsider. Because what he said is clearly wrong.


    On Free trade you can drop the DA clickie. So you can literally turn the ring in rapid succession for 5 mins and get as many people the scroll. It's even more "exploitable" because you can do it forever.

    The ring war bonus loot is in no way raid equivalent, Zlandicar loot is straight up better in most cases and is 1 Groupable in era. The bonus items from the ring war are in no way comparable to the good drops from actual raid bosses.
  4. Triconix Augur

    He clearly isn't. You are.
    Key words: Free Trade. Only one server is. That's not the mountain you should be standing on to determine "standard" because by defintion, FV is a non-standard server.

    Keep moving those goalposts, buddy, you'll get there soon enough if you remain adamant!

    Who said anything about Zlandicar? And yes, Zlandicar is easy. His loot, outside of a couple items, is not good. And here we go again with the Risk vs Reward. Zlandicar offers low tier items and is a low tier raid encounter. You starting to catch my drift? And like I said, EQ Devs have historically been incredibly stingy with risk vs reward. The ring war offers up to 7 items. That's pretty gratuitous compared to most raid events/encounters.
    Skuz likes this.
  5. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    False


    Doesn't change that it could be "Exploited" on FV. He said the precedent doesn't exist even though it clearly exists with another item in the same quest. This is just a fact man.

    Zlandicar is a group mob. Lets compare some rewards for raid vs bonus ring war loot

    Bonus loot mask https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6893
    Vulak Mask https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6585
    Lord Yel Mask https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4552
    1 Groupable quest mask https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4431
    Soloable mob Mask https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4323

    Clearly the Bonus loot isn't even really better then group loot. 7 loots for multiple hours of time investment of a raid force is unbelievable bad during SoV. You can get 50+ better loots in NToV in the same amount of time. That doesn't even count the time takes to quest ring 1-9. The quest rewards for the 10th ring and terrible if you can only get 1 of each bonus loots.

    Also changing the quest midway through the expansion would reward those who "exploited" this and punish those who haven't finished the quest yet. This easily could be pushed back till the next TLP before SoV launches, that way you don't reward people for "exploiting"
  6. Triconix Augur

    This is essentially what you're saying.

    The picking and choosing of comparing loots is hilarious. You literally picked the worst bonus item from them all and went with it. Your bias is so clear you may as well try and sell it as a diamond.

    You continue to just try and stretch the truth, move goalposts, and make outrageous claims. You're not worth speaking to any longer because you cannot put together one logical, comprehensible argument for keeping the quest in it's current state.

    The bonus mask - you even said it yourself, it was an item added in to honor the first person completing the quest. The item is more for name recognition than anything.
    Vulak Mask - Literally the end game raid boss. Need I say more?
    Lord Yeli Mask - Lord of Skyshrine and one of the "Trio" of leadership in Vvelious
    1 Groupable Quest Mask - Astonishing time investment to get not one, but two mobs that are one 12+ hour spawn timers. If you want to compare this item, you should probably compare it to the Dain final ring. That's a much closer comparison.
    Soloable mob mask - Nice item, but most likely not soloable by all classes.

    Want to compare the Crown of Narandi though?

    Also, DPG has a precedence of enforcing retroactive bans/punishments. They can easily do that. Don't assume.
    Skuz and Duder like this.
  7. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Sure

    Vulak https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6478 Double the AC which is kinda a big deal for the tank classes and until Luclin the 3 classes that can use Narandi are tanks
    KT https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6139 Again more AC/HP and resists
    Groupable Helm quest SK version https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=60174 Same AC lower stats
    Groupable dragon https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=25425 lower AC haste instead of FT
    Group quest helm https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=6452 lower AC more mana and a focus

    again the helm is significantly worse then Raid loot and in this case it's slightly better then group loot.
  8. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Normal People using Common Sense: You can only get 1 of each lore item from the event.
    Devs: Yeah this is an exploit
    Waiting: Nu uh! If you go to FV and spam turn in/drop the dain DA clicky you can get a ton of them so there is PrEcEdEnT!

    Seriously though, if the loot is so trash why are you so adamant each ring war should drop 10 of each item? (assuming you know how to do the exploit)
    Skuz and MasterMagnus like this.
  9. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Crybaby TLP forums- Marl shouldn't despawn on turn in so every SK can get epic in era, picks should exist so everyone can camp the best group content, AoCs should exist so everyone can get raid loot.
    Also Crybaby TLP forums- Ring war bonus loot should be "fixed" so only a handful of players can get it.
    Me- what's your reason
    Crybaby TLP forums- It's bugged because mobs that aren't supposed to despawn don't despawn and dropable lore loot is droppable and quests are repeatable like 1000s of other quests
    Me- None of those are bugs
    Crybaby TLP forums- it's bugged REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
  10. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Lol so everyone being able to go through the entire quest line to receive the 1 reward or everyone being able to raid all the various bosses once a week is comparable to an exploit that allows you to get multiple items for the effort that was supposed to give 1 of each. REEEEEE indeed
    Skuz likes this.
  11. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    You don't seem to understand that only 1 Ring can be completed per day limiting the number of bonus loot that can be obtained. But for some reason limiting those loots is okay but limiting anything else is a problem.

    None of you have a problem with Sleeper 2.0 existing in out of era and leaving in the infinitely spawnable Milas An'Rev to remain in game for Infinite Primal weapons and SoV raid spells. Because for some reason getting infinite raid loot is okay in that case.
  12. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Educate me then, why can you only do 1 ring a day? Ring 8 mob spawns in picks and Ring War has an AoC so what else is limiting you? Also, 1 per day means a max of 90 "in era", how many of the other loots you were comparing the ring war loot to do you think exist on the server "in era"?

    Things being in/out of era are constantly debated on the forums, some stuff just exists out of era. No one was even talking about Milas, but if you want to bring him up then go ahead and submit a bug post saying his respawn should be extended to something realistic so people can't farm Primals all day long. I'll go give it a "like".
  13. phaeril Augur

    You can't do the ringwar outside of a DZ anymore, right? Letting them drop multiple things back in the day seemed like an anti-grief mechanic so you couldn't turn in your head on someone else's success. Which is probably the best argument for it being unintended, given how griefy the ring and shawl quests really are it seems much more likely that they intended players get nothing most of the time and thank them for the RNG.

    The ring war is annoying, filling up on loot gets people to do it, it's mostly trash now (and is almost all trash come luclin), can it be repeated?. Seems like a short sighted overreaction to give people less incentive to engage in the weird special content that makes SoV cool. Well the special content that technically still works.

    Sure, letting it drop multiple times doesn't make sense now that you can't just steal someone's turn in (since it's all in a DZ now) but changing it now also doesn't make sense for the speed and scale of TLP.

    Consider focusing instead on things that only have upside to fixing, like the 8th shawl turn in. The harm caused by a bunch of extra mid-tier loots that are by far some of the most involved to acquire seems quite low compared to getting the capstone tradeskill quest item ganked because someone turned it in ahead of you. By changing ring war turn ins you basically grief everyone that plays SoV from here on out, nobody should be sad about some extra mana regen items floating around the game at the point where the pool to regen is so out of balance anyway.

    I mean, doing whatever can be done to keep the grind up and increase item values is what they do, so I'm not surprised that it's the solution they would favor but the only argument against leaving it alone seems to be misplaced anger.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Take the L buddy, your ego will survive, even geniuses can be wrong, being wrong is an opportunity to learn and grow, it's not a kick in the family jewels, nobody will think less of you if you admit you may have got things wrong, quite the opposite.
    Duder likes this.
  15. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    This is a bug.
    You can try and justify it how you wish, but people exploited this bug, and it is an exploit not normal intended behavior.
    I am locking this because the conversion is not constructive.
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