What would be a good name for a new: TLP RED (PVP) ???

Yes and you'll also notice people like me saying how this logic is. None of people that want a PvP TLP have any interest in playing on live at all. Or how a ton have people have asked for an free trade TLP and despite the fact the FV is the most popular live server we still haven't gotten one

FV can be considered the most popular server because no other server is like it. People who want that style of play aren't spreading themselves out through multiple servers. If you took all of the regular servers and combined them into just one server, it would be far bigger than FV.

Zek was dead before instancing became a big thing. They've been begging for people to come to that server for the past 20 years. It's a popular server among a very small, but loud minority. It's an extremely unpopular server for the majority for almost all of EQ's existance.

That's not the point. The point is free trade is popular, but if the devs won't make a TLP with a popular idea what reason do we have to believe making Zek "popular" would convince them to do a PvP TLP. Nah the devs are busy making servers like Miragul which nobody wants and Rizlona which was obviously gonna be a flop but caters to a very whiny vocal minority.

Zek didn't exist before instancing was a thing. It was 4 separate servers before instancing was a thing. At the time LDoN was released Rallos was the most popular EQ server, Tallon which was so popular on release that they needed to create Vallon as an overflow server and Sullon which was super popular at release but started to die off because it had no rules against corpse camping and almost zero level restrictions on PvP.

Why do you think Rizlona is a flop? Because there isn't 90 posts a day on the forums about how toxic it is (see: Aradune). If any population (besides the pvp bois) is a whiny vocal minority it would be the 0 boxing allowed crowd. Ragefire is the only other TLP w/o truebox and from what I've heard (feel free to correct) there is more than 3 guilds clearing content which makes it arguably "healthier" than Phinny/Selo/Coirnav/Miragul, not to mention the multi page thread from those servers begging them to remov truebox after a certain amount of time/expac opens. Oddly enough at this very moment Aradune is showing "med" population while Rizlona is showing "high"..yeah yeah afk kick and 2 box rules aside, thats hardly what most would consider a flop.

Man the people that love boxing are so delusional. LOL

That's just another way of saying that you really don't want a PvP server unless you get to dictate the implementation. It's Darkpaws game, they're the ones who get to set the guidelines. I even looked up that FoH AMA with the devs and thought it was curious that the one dev who most supported a PvP server also said that they thought it was rather sad that no one got any of the SoF achievements done in era and that seemed like a problem

Never played more than 2 at once and I wouldn't say I even do that well so wouldn't say I "love" boxing, way to dodge the entire post though

You mean other than Rallos Zelk, Tallon Zek, Sullon Zek and Vallon Zek which all got merged into February 8th 2005 and the Discord server?

Correct i don't want a PvP server i want a TLP PvP server.

Is there any evidence of this? If free trade was so popular, we would have more "live" servers of it. It's clear the amount of people interested in it can be accommodated in just one server so the interest in it is limited at best.

Is the argument for FV having the most popular style based solely on its single server population? I dont know how populated the server is, but that logic is flawed. Add the populations of all live servers and compare it to FV. You'll quickly find out how unpopular FV is.

The argument is that Free trade is obviously capable of supporting a massively profitable TLP, yet they still refuse to make one. Why on earth would people like myself who want a PvP TLP force ourselves to play on Zek only for them to ultimately deny creating a PvP TLP anyways just like they do with Free trade.

Because unless you can somehow convince at least 2 guilds worth of people to go red, thats pretty much your only option for pvp, now or in the future.

...that didn't answer my question at all.

Your question is moot. The point doesn't hinge on FV being the most popular ruleset.

If you can't convince two guilds worth of people to go red how do you expect to convince two guilds worth of people to play on a tlp pvp server?

Exactly. There is a small vocal group of people who view the Zek servers through rose colored glass and want to bring that feeling back. The same nostalgia the no boxers miss when at any level range you could /lfg and get a ton of offers. This game is no longer that game.

Not going to happen. DPG has already said "prove you want PVP by playing on our currently available PVP server"

There have been multiple Red guilds on TLP PvP servers. It's not the same as having a PvP server.

There has never been a TLP PvP server so not sure what you are talking about. And sure having a red guild on a normal TLP server is not the same but if you can get people who want to PvP to show that they would support a TLP PvP server ruleset it would go a long way towards getting one created. As of now Daybreak has stated they see no evidence for one and given how few people showed up to the big even on Zek it seems that they are correct.

P99 even refuses to launch another Red Server. There's just not enough demand for it, because PVP players cry a lot and chase off any population.