TLP for the "long haul"

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Nightmoon, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Nightmoon New Member

    With the advent of the inevitable 'next server' wishlist posts starting to appear i thought i'd add a little comment on how i've seen things develop over the years.

    If you're not in EQ for the money/krono's, i guess most players have the idea that the server will be home for a long time and riding all the way to live. Then the inevitable happens and another flurry of TLP's open, the Krono Krowd (or KK for short) jump ship causing a visible population dip, and the inevitable 'herd' of people follow on to be on the 'busy server'.

    This then leads to the death of the pug groups on your server which leaves non solo classes looking for groups internally in their guilds, or forced to box. Guild numbers start to falter due to the lack of new blood, people become more isolated in their box groups, and the whole thing decays to the point where people only log on to raid or run their box groups. Once the last guild clearing stuff in era fails to do so, that's usually the last death knells and the server proceeds to 'fippy' status.

    Phinny had a great start. the follow on server was Agnarr, which was niche interest, so it was over 2 years before Coirnav landed and the 'drain' started. As a result the player base had time to get established and attached to thier characters and it shows by the fact there are still 3 guilds clearing content in era at ROS.

    Selo's/Miragul still have one guild clearing content, but they're somewhat special cases and have had an accelerated lifespan.

    This kind of leads on to what's in fate for the current crop of TLP's. With the current rapid release of TLP's, the population is at best nomadic. Will any proceed as far as live? I have the feeling most will get to The Serpents Spine and then struggle and die. The lvl 70 hump will put a big dent in the playerbase and with the increased difficulty of raids post TSS guilds will struggle and fold/merge.

    So should you play a TLP? Absolutely if you love the early years, or you're one of the KK, but be aware that the servers are ultimately doomed. If you can see yourself still around in a couple of years, either resign yourself to boxing or choose a class that are good solo/molo. If you want to ride the server to live... join phinny/selos/miragul. I'm almost 100% certain none of the other servers will make it as far as these 3. If you don't want to join these servers then go play on live.

    I wish it wasn't like this, but with 5 new tlp's in the last 2 years, none of the current crop is going to last :(

    I'ts a pity they didn't make the transfers between TLP's free of charge so people could migrate off the dying servers when it becomes time, to reinforce some of the more established servers.

    It remains to be seen what happens to selos/miragul/phinny when they hit live. I would love it if they kept all 3 with their individual rulesets (with subscription required), and players could transfer to them from other TLP's as Live TLP destination servers... giving you the option of fast xp/spawn chance vs heroic vs standard.
  2. Kobra Augur

    For some reason people always leave out ragefire, but I believe they are still going strong and have a live like ruleset which should keep them going the distance.
    GamerGramps likes this.
  3. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I think ragefire gets left out because its the last of the pre-phinny clones. Agents of Change, Truebox, Fixed unlocks are all "modern tlp" features that Ragefire doesn't have. I personally would like to see them merge Coirnav and Ragefire when/if they manage to meet each other expac wise to consolidate the populations a bit but that didn't seem to be too popular with either server last time I suggested it and the rule sets are fairly incompatible so would likely end up with a lot of unhappy people.
  4. Gremin Augur

    I find what keeps a server going is the community. If it is strong, works together to make the server better and coexist with one another. Either way I still advocate for no new servers in 2021. Let the current ones run. If they need to make money add more bags, illusions in store, come up with something new we can buy that will be popular.
  5. Machen New Member


    If bag sales are the issue, I'd contribute what I spent this year on bags again to a "Support us or we'll open a new TLP server" crowdfund.... I suspect that's only a drop in the bucket compared to krono sales etc though.
    VandilIzer and Herf like this.
  6. Mrjon3s Augur

    I think Rizlona is gonna go for the long haul. After adding in the x-fers from aradune once boxing becomes important after the PoP exodus people that want to keep playing can just transfer to rizlona and start boxing from 1 pc.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Machen New Member


    I agree with this, but mostly because Rizlona is something unique that we haven't had before ever. I would think that if they launch a new TLP in 2021, it will be Truebox, and will not draw people off of Rizlona. And Rizlona will give people a place to transfer to and continue playing once other servers reach the eras where Truebox becomes a detriment. Even at 2022, when the 2021 server is hitting pop/gates and Rizlona is at TSS or so, there might be some who would want to xfer. It'll be very easy and perhaps appealing for people to just skip the 70's era altogether and get caught up to 75.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I wonder how a new live server would go, everything unlocked, all fresh lvl 1s. The racers can race to CoV expac and lvl 115. Try to kill stuff under geared and below level. Probably wouldn't happen but you never know I guess.
  9. Machen New Member


    They have done several in the last few years, and neither has been very successful.
  10. Tweakfour17 Augur

    A quick and dirty google seems to suggest Vox is the newest live server which launched in 2012, wouldnt call that several or last few years, maybe I missed some
  11. Gremin Augur

    Lifetime subs again, pls. I got a few accounts I would be more than happy to convert.
  12. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Trakanon & Vox were both "fresh start" live servers neither exactly blew up with big populations anywhere remotely close to that which the TLP have seen so I highly doubt another is going to show up any time soon.
  13. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    My rule of thumb is that if it requires lots of dev work or it will net them a lot of heat then it won't happen.


    AoC I think is seen by the devs as a TLP-only feature, it was created to solve a lot of the problems they saw on Ragefire which they tried to get involved in with the rotation idea and got a lot of blowback for it when it didn't work out, as some told them it wouldn't, but props for trying. AoC was the answer to a specific problem, that problem is not on live servers, the added benefit from TLP is once the server moves out of the eras the AoC were created for they take on a whole new function as a major Quality of Life feature - but that is a side effect of the true purpose.
    Once TLP hit live AoC will be switched off - less dev work than the alternative that they have resisted for 5 years which is enabling AoC on live servers - even if just for all-access players as a QoL feature, despite the clamour & support for that over the years.

    Halved unlock timers on Selo - those will get reverted to live unlock timers, they would be an unfair advantage for any remaining raiding guilds on that server or any that transferred there to take advantage of them.

    Selo faster named spawn rate will be reverted to live.

    Miragul's 85 Heroic start - maybe, of all the TLP features around this one in my book probably stands the strongest chance of surviving to live server status. First off you may be able to create an 85 heroic here & transfer off to a live server, so you still pay DPG to move the character, also at some point a Heroic 100 will probably be created, there's still likely to be an ongoing developer debate around that as 85 Heroic has a lot to learn to be an effective character already & making a 100 Heroic is even more a case of a huge knowledge gap involved and so they will evaluate if 100 Heroic even makes sense or if they can create a high-level tutorial that addresses that huge knowledge gap some & if they think that the 100-120 levelling will be enough time to "learn the class" well enough. Either way at some point Heroic 85 will be obsolete so that's why I think this might stay.

    BUT

    Cheapest less contentious, less work, less flack, less debate, less moaning option?
    Live status TLP get merged to one of the low population live server ASAP to bolster live server populations and avoid ALL those above issues with TLP rules & features. So that's the most-likely scenario I think.
  14. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I pretty much agree with all this, though we can hypothesize and hope for other outcomes. However the least least least amount of work would be for them to do nothing. Selo remains bonus xp and half lockouts and only the current TLPs that CAN transfer there could continue. Would it piss off live servers? Maybe, but they have the option to roll fresh on a truebox all-access required server if they want those features. They've had that option for almost 2 years now. Same with AoC, nothing suggests they will magically despawn so to remove them would require intervention when doing nothing would require nothing. It's entirely possible that all 3 servers remain the exact same but just have CoV expac unlocked. Time will tell
    Skuz likes this.
  15. Nightmoon New Member

    Yeah i think the do-nothing option when the servers hit live, would work very well. The 'special' rulesets would remain, there's no disruption to existing members, and the servers would remain as viable targets to transfer to from other TLP's when they inevitably die off.

    Additionally DPG would retain these as subscription required servers, so would continue to make money from them.

    Everyone wins :)
  16. Triconix Augur

    Live servers only get new expansions once a year so 8 week unlocks is impossible. That fact negates the entire reason why it was set up for higher exp, double spawns, half raid lockouts, etc. The only thing you would be doing by keeping these rules in place is pissing off a majority of the user base on live servers, especially those more casual players. What do you propose as you option for these people? Tell them to screw off and suffer while a specific server gets random benefits for a no longer viable reason? Tell them to pick up their char and transfer and forget the decades of being on a server, the relationships built, the guild experiences, etc?

    That's the understatement of the year. Forget group-based players and all the extra loot and exp that comes with Selos because high end players don't need more of that. ToV already allowed live servers to gear up 3, 4, and 5 alts. There would be zero point in keeping those rules in place because gear would rot by the time March hit.

    The real concern is how are you going to deal with half lockouts for the serverwide progression races? Being able to hit the final raid event in literally half the time in better gear is an incredible advantage. You would literally drive dozens of end game guilds away and you'd be witnessing the greatest exodus of players since WoW released.

    What a narrow viewpoint you have to argue that devs should just leave the rules as is once reaching live. Would it piss off live servers? Try single handedly killing the game with that decision.
    Skuz and Tweakfour17 like this.
  17. mark Augur

    the reason i dont play live its because its a different game,also every year we get a new tlp to play on i normally play up to don then start on a new tlp,i loved rizlona because its a boxing server and most of the krono farmers went to aradune,because so many of us box and some bot being at the computer people in the guild help each other with their epics,group progresion etc.to keep a server viable long term allow boxing and botting at keyboard eventually the i make a living out of kronos will move to greener pasture(new tlp).
  18. Tweakfour17 Augur

    I did not argue the devs SHOULD do that, I argued that doing NOTHING (leaving it all as is) would be the LEAST amount of effort which has been the trend. If they have a plan they are surely keeping it very close to the chest which to me implies there is no plan, no plan = no changes. Also as I noted, transferring to/from servers is not an automatic option and requires them to program it so if they did nothing no one from a Live server could transfer to Selo. FV has faster xp and free trade and that hasn't completely killed the game. Its also a "live" server. I'm sure some people would be upset, but I personally think you over estimate that leaving Selo as is would completely and utterly destroy Live EQ, Selo also has limitations that Live servers don't, Truebox and no Free-to-Play. How important are those factors to live eq? Perhaps Selo wouldn't unlock the newest expac until 8 weeks after the real Live servers got it, that would bring some balance to the racing towards expac completion too wouldn't it? Your gamewide guild implosion also is predicated on the assumption that the 1 guild left on Selo manages to convince enough people to buy the expansion and continue to raid it and then continue to repeat that content for a year before having this huge advantage when more likely the last raid guild folds once every character has to shell out $40 more to even play the last expac.
  19. mark Augur

    also allow picks and aoc so theres no blocking of content my wish list would be to allow people doing their epic to spin up their own pick so they can get the epic 1.0 done
  20. Machen New Member


    Brekt, which has already been merged. 2017 launch.
    Tweakfour17 likes this.