Twitch: Why do you guys think I don't see people stream on live everquest servers?

I occasionally watch twitch steams of Everquest. Here are a couple of observations that I have.

1. Most streamers are playing on one of the P99 servers.
2. For those that play on official servers, the two newest classic servers seem to be the most popular.

I was just curious what you guys thought.

Because EQ is boring to watch.

Think most live server streams are when a new expac is launched. So might keep an eye out once the new expansion goes Live.

And while there may not be many live streams, there are plenty of Youtube videos of old Live Raids and boxers doing Missions etc.

My thoughts:

1. Kobra is right, EQ in general is boring to watch, but Live EQ is boring AF to watch (and play, IMO). You can only see about 10% of the screen because of the 11 macro bars, and you can't hear anything because of the machine-gun mouse clicking required.
2. Most people on Live EQ are boxing a (near) full group (unless raiding) --> Live EQ boxing is largely worthless unless you are using Macaroni-Quest --> Anyone who is hardcore enough to stream Live EQ on twitch is boxing using Macaroni-Quest and they know they can probably only ever get caught if they twitch themselves using it.
3. Live EQ is function over fashion. Torment of Velious might just be the most cobbled-together recycled-garbage expansion in this entire anthology.

Couple reasons.

A lot of people that stick with this game still game on very aged hardware and don't have the "oomf" in their rigs or additional streaming hardware on the side to handle streaming. Also, contrary to people saying this game "will run in a potato", running it decently enough in circumstances that might get viewers (i.e. raiding) still requires some beefy hardware to get reasonable FPS without turning off all visual options).

Age. Streaming is much more popular with the younger crowd, while this game is now mostly the older folks that grew up playing this game when they were younger. There are some exceptions, with now-parents bringing their children in to play, but it's far from the norm and any lasting new players are far and few between, unfortunately. Any measurable bump in subs are probably returning re-subs, also likely older folks.

Instant gratification and entitlement. This somewhat comes hand-in-hand along with a younger viewer age. EQ is a very slow-paced game with a lot of repetition and won't hold the interest of the younger folks that are used to playing mobile games for 5-10 minutes at a time, accomplishing their goal, then moving on to something else for the day. This is also why the player base has remained small in EQ, because few gamers in this day want to invest the time involved to be dedicated and successful in EQ. This also translates directly to interest in viewership. This game isn't like Overwatch, where every match is reset and an instant even playing field every 5-10 minutes.

PVP is virtually dead in EQ. A lot of streamers watch streams for PVP competition. You won't find streamers tuning back in once a year just to watch the race for world or server first to beat an expansion. There just isn't enough filler in-between to keep them tuning back in the rest of the year. This loops back to instant gratification while viewing.

Pure player head count. This is partially due to boxing being only a single player for many toons, but also the simple fact that there aren't as many people playing this game as others. You see thousands of Call of Duty streams because there are millions and millions of players. The player base of EQ is tiny in comparison to console game following, thus even if there was an equivalent ratio of streamers compared to player count, EQ streamers would be a drop in the bucket compared to modern gaming streamers.

A lot of people use "assistance software" or multibox toons and there is still, for whatever a reason, a stigma against this on most servers even if they play legit within the ruleset of a given server. Heck, even some people on Rizlona frowned on it, which makes no sense at all. These players don't want to rat themselves out and face the backlash.

TL;DR; I don't see "Everquest" streaming gaining any real traction unless a new game offering using the IP comes out. There has been some subtle rumblings that there are some things in the works, but we've seen where that went in the past. I really hope the IP can be used for something that can latch on some of the modern, younger crowd, as maybe it can bring some fresh life back into EQ and EQ2, but we will have to wait and see what DPG decides to do.

Because even if you've played EQ for 20 years, following whats happening on stream on a Live EQ server can be difficult.

Watching someone smack a gnoll pup with a rusty sword is pretty easy to keep track of what is happening, and is something almost anyone that has played this game at any stage can relate to.

99% of time in EQ is spent camping in a single spot killing mobs with no special abilities. It's boring to watch, and it's why people just tab out.

I've watched a number of eq streams since returning for agnarr and without a doubt this is the answer.

Eq is boring to watch so you need the host to have a personality and engage the viewers. The majority of people streaming eq are basically zoned out and offer minimal "flavor".

Even us hardcore eq players know that the vast majority of our time is very dull. I liken it to playing slot machines... you're just waiting for the next dopamine hit, but most of your time is just spinning your wheels in anticipation of the fun, brief moment.

Thanks for the well thought explanation. I thought it mostly had to do with "assistance software".

You guys have a few things right but you're missing a whole lot of the reality of live EQ.
Watching someone box in EQ is horrendous no matter the era.
I've been in and watched Twitch streams where you take 6 elite level live raid toons and they just murder content and it can be mildly exciting.
The very best content that EQ has available to Twitch just so happens to be the content that is the most secretive in EQ. The fear of giving away strats for new content is a huge factor in high end raiding.
Until a few years ago, nearly every high end guild strictly prohibited Twitching new content so that their uber strats did not leak out to competitors.
This is not in any way a factor for TLP or P99 because all of those raids are so simple and there hasn't been anything new on those raids since before most TLPers were born.
Zaknaffein in my guild was the first person that really started to break down the barrier of Twitching new content.
https://www.twitch.tv/zaknaffein_warrior
He's an elite player, he's funny and he's engaging with his audience. I also didn't prohibit him from Twitching our raids while doing beta or expansion launch day raids. A few years ago that was something that simply did not happen.
Last year I saw a few more guilds allowing their members to Twitch expansion launch day and beta raids and that stuff gets a ton of views. Frankly there is nothing whatsoever that TLP or P99 can offer viewers on Twitch that is in any way remotely new content.

However the fact that anyone who has ever raided old content up until POP or Omens and has first hand experience doing those raids at one time makes it easier to keep up with the raids and know whats going on. Everyone knows how to raid PoTime or COA so you can see whats on the screen and it drags up some fun old memories.
Watching a Twitch stream of new content is much harder. If the raid leader isn't engaging or the Twitch user has voice chat muted, then that also makes it a lot more boring.

Here are a few more of the better Twitch streams for live content.
Most of these haven't streamed lately, but expansion launch is right around the corner!
https://www.twitch.tv/marquele
https://www.twitch.tv/fintank_findictive
https://www.twitch.tv/ryinoeq
https://www.twitch.tv/odiiusx

I think you totally nailed it. Simple works, complex doesn't, all boils down to the amount of information the viewer is being tasked with comprehending.

I think also for something like EQ streaming, it is more about the player's personality and interaction with what's going on than the actual content. You've got a lot more free time to entertain a crowd in classic than on late era expansions.

There are several reasons:

1) Most people who play EQ don't *want* to stream.

EQ players these days are generally older, have jobs, and are introverted. People who stream are generally younger, unemployed (in the traditional sense), and extroverted (or narcissistic and seek validation from the people watching them play).

You might as well ask why your parents/grandparents aren't using TikTok.


2) It's hard to play EQ solo and pay attention to your chat.

Unless you're playing low levels, EQ isn't easy to play as a single player. Yes, you can box, but that takes more focus and you don't have time to engage your audience.


3) It's hard to play EQ in a group and pay attention to your chat.

Even if you're in a group with others, if you're the tank or healer you still have to be on the ball and paying attention or you're going to kill your group. So unless you're a DPS class that can **** off half the time to chat with your audience you're gonna have a bad time.


4) Streaming requires a decent setup that arguably a lot of EQ players don't have.

You can run EQ on a potato, and believe it or not, a lot of people do that. Streaming well requires decent hardware and it can also be technically challenging to setup...many EQ players can barely install in-game maps and/or custom UIs. They aren't setting up OBS. They don't even know what OBS is.


5) Even if they are interested in streaming, I doubt many EQ players would think anyone would watch.

As an example, one or two people have asked me if I stream, (I don't) and while I think I'm decently well known enough, I have a hard time believing that anyone would *want* to watch me stream. Like, why? Would you really be interested in watching me play a stupid heroic character and hearing me talk about 10 year old quests?

I feel like the only people who would be interested are other EQ players, and wouldn't it be more entertaining for them to play themselves?

The approach to live EQ streams is also pretty different compared to what you will see for "classic" nostalgia streams. A TLPer or P99er is more likely to do things like actually set up channel points, have cool alerts, have some kind of overlay or UI that makes their stream unique, have some kind of community aspect, when we "could" listen to music have some music going and properly integrated with the stream (not too loud, attenuate when speaking, etc.), have their camera turned on, and engage with their audience. With the exception of that guy who used to stream wearing sunglasses wearing a suit all the time the majority of live streamers just turn on their video feed and that's it.

As others have said EQ is super boring and live EQ is even more boring so you have to go the extra mile to attract / retain viewers which I don't think live EQ streamers are interested in doing.

Whoever keeps saying “eq is boring but live eq is really boring” you’re just wrong or you don’t play live or tried and didn’t like it. Live is faster paced and is more complex. Watching someone play through a 20 year old expansion is boring.

IMO twitch is kind of like being at your friends house when you were a kid watching your buddy play a video game and not letting you have a chance to play, watching anyone play a video game is boring.

Someone nailed it earlier... twitch is successful because of their hosts... some happen to be well known players within their respective game, others just have a knack for holding peoples attention and making people laugh. I bet there are a bunch of people that could start streaming EQ and be successful with it... currently aside from the few Maedhros posted we really don’t have that in EQ. There is quite a bit of $$ to be made from it tho... take a look at WoW.. yes they have a massive player base and interested viewers, Asmongold makes half a million dollars a year streaming from his messy bedroom, he’s quite engaging with his audience and has a quirky personality that can be quite entertaining.

I'm gonna be as nice as I can and simply say that live server players are almost all terrible streamers, I legit don't know why half of them even turn them on if they are never going to interact with their stream. Some of their UIs have almost less gameplay view than the p99 auction stream, and nobody wants to hear your GINA alerts for 2hrs straight.

I think we all know who you're talking about Bobby =D

Nobody actually plays live EQ. There is a handful of people that play the first 2 weeks of expansion, then only log on to raid. The rest of Live server "populations" are propped up by people sitting AFK in the guild lobby and bots afk farming.

I dont watch any streams, but I find it laughable when people say live is boring to watch. Have any of you even played past OOW? Live raids are way more complex and multi faceted. They are fast paced and require way more strategy. The raids are closer to what you would experience in modern games.

I cannot see how watching tank and spank events could ever be more entertaining than live raids. They are pretty fun to play but no way would I watch people raiding TOV or Kael for more than 15 minutes. Its just the same repetitive tactic over and over with a different dragon. The "strategy" behind the "events" has been known for literal decades.

Also, what is this nonsense with not seeing any game play in live streams? I have 9 hot key bars and still have over 2/3 of my screen designated to visibility.

Complex doesn’t equal interesting in this case. Also 99% of EQ Twitch viewers are not watching raid content. The most popular EQ steams are group content typically in the 1-60 range. Later era EQ content (especially post DoDH) is largely soulless (imho) and just isn’t nostalgic or fun for most people to watch.