Camps/KS

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by sojuu, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. sojuu Augur

    Just out of curiosity when did the rules of camps/KSing change? Was it not first in combat?

    Give context on progression server, expansion just unlocked. It Chaos because everyone is trying for the same stuff. Well I pick out a room, and I stay in the confines of the room to not be too greedy. Not maxed yet paladin as just recently returning. Mob spawns, start slashing away. I did at least get the first hit in so first in combat, so I am safe right? Well a zerker run by with boxes and obliterates it. He gets the kill because of more DPS. I am just kind of like WTF. Oh well I guess at least I can petition it.

    Daybreaks response? Sorry we don't recognize camps (which I know because it would be too hard to decide who really have the loot right), and we dont recognize first in combat (when did that happen?). They believe players can resolve among themselves. Yea we should be able to but that's like the police showing up to a robbery, and telling the store owner sorry we cant do anything you should be able to resolve your issue with the guy that robbed you at gun point on your own.

    Anyways /rant off. I just think its kind of a crappy stance to take and was curious when that changed.
  2. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Around 2014 or so. They simply do not have the CS force to handle tickets about who engaged what mob first. It can be a bit of a culture shock for players coming back from many years ago, but that is how the game works and you'll need to just adjust to the new mindset. If you're after a rare/valuable mob, people absolutely will DPS race for it sometimes, and they aren't doing anything wrong or breaking any rules by doing so. Just be prepared, bring some extra DPS friends, and be gracious in both victory and defeat.
    Tatanka likes this.
  3. sojuu Augur

    Just find it odd they wouldn't recognize it. As for the not doing anything wrong when they out DPS you, its still wrong. That is like saying I am right for letting a door close in someone's face who's hands are full as I walk into a building. Is it wrong? No, but its a jerk move. Or by taking a rare mob from a camp you are camping and killing all the place holders for. Is it wrong by the rules? No its not, but still wrong to do something like that. Only reason its not against the rules is like you said, they do not have the time because they invest minimal resources in the game due to its on its last leg.

    I do thank you for responding in regards to the rule change though. That is really appreciated, was thinking it changed but was starting to question myself (yes I am also a returning player as well).
    NayiliuFV and Duder like this.
  4. Captain Video Augur


    The game is not on its last leg. There are upwards of 10K distinct players, upwards of 25K active accounts, it turns a profit (albeit a fairly small one), and new content continues to be developed. Rules have changed because the online gaming culture has changed industry-wide, and no game publisher currently exists which can police the old-school play-nice policies you are asking for. Every game has its share of jerks, and also its share of pleasant and courteous players who "play nice" because they choose to do so. EQ is and has always been a MMO, which means there will always be contested goals and contested mobs, and which means you'll always get better results when playing as part of a group vs. playing solo. Join a guild, problem solved. If you insist on playing solo, at least recognize that on Live servers, the behavior you describe only happens sometimes, not all that often.
    code-zero and CatsPaws like this.
  5. Flatchy Court Jester

    First in combat is a crap rule anyway. OK I have been in the zone 2 hours killing my small camp in Kael, respawn time is like 7 minutes, I literally have like 4 mobs to kill in that 7 minutes time. That includes 2 ph btw. Finally my named pops I been waiting for. While I am setting up to pulls some #$@%#&* runs up and takes my named and kills it. The named would never have appeared if I had not spawned it. Common courtesy should rule the day. This is not WoW we are not in our teens or twenties anymore. Sorry you will not persuade me that I am wrong.
  6. smash Augur

    Common courtesy is on vacation
  7. Tucoh Augur

    Progression servers are so competitive and monetized that DPS races for mobs are the standard, not the exception. On live everything is a bit more relaxed so people expect to be able to claim a camp and hold it without contention.

    Coming from live it's a bit jarring at first on TLP, but it makes sense once you understand the game and the culture. Think of it this way, playing on live is like hunting, if another hunter rolled up next to your blind and started setting up camp you'd be rightfully pissed. But TLP? TLP is like basketball, if you're hunting a mob another player wants you can't get pissed if they guard you. Killing that mob, that was built 20 years ago isn't the game no more than being able to take infinite freethrows is basketball. Competing with other players IS the game at this point.

    So, if you don't want to play that game and compete with other players, play on live or play on older content on progression.


    The only other thing I'll add is that on live people can get rabid about camps. As a rule I don't compete with other players on live, even if they move in on my camp, it's just not worth it. But I'll be cruising by with my boxes and run across another player that'll start barking as soon as they see me. It's like, there's better ways to live.
    [IMG]
    Buster_Shruggs likes this.
  8. sojuu Augur

    I do agree all games has its jerk, but I still feel they should enforce first in combat at a minimum. I also realize just because I feel that way does not make it so. It's more so venting more than anything else. I know this thread will change nothing, I was just curious on others thoughts. As for it being on its last leg, I still believe its on its last leg. It is a shell of its former self. Just because it has 10K distinct players does not mean much if you are not attracting new players. Not sure where you got your numbers and if that includes boxes. Which if it does and not sure how you can filter out the boxes, then that means you may as well cut that number in 1/2. Sure not all box, but MANY do and a lot box more than 1.

    Completely agree.





    You can be competitive and not be a jerk. Guard like Scottie Pippen, not Dennis Rodman. So because its a TLP server its ok to be a jerk? Sorry, I cant buy into that.
  9. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    How can you assert the game is on its "last leg" while also claiming they should enforce a policy that would require 24/7 active GM enforcement on every server to make sure everyone is playing by your definition of nice?
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Live servers still respect camps for the most part and are not DPS races. TLP servers are DPS races unfortunately because the server culture allows it or the server culture never developed enough to discourage it I guess.

    I will disagree and say folks who DPS race are doing something wrong just not something actionable. *shrugs*
  11. Svann2 The Magnificent

    Most people do respect camps, but dbg wont and /ooc wont.
  12. Tucoh Augur

    Sure, there's no reason to be a jerk. But on a TLP server in a competitive area a berserker box team seeing a named mob pop up on monk track, running in and blowing it up isn't them being a jerk, it's just them playing the game. It's the equivalent to this:

    [IMG]
  13. Nuttmeg Augur

    Unfortunately, the old school rules are untenable. If a solo character is in a certain spot, maybe they are camping the closest 4 mobs. On a different day, someone molo in the exact same spot is camping 8. Maybe tomorrow, a group in that same location is camping an entire wing/floor of 60 mobs.

    It would simply be far too much work to define all the possible "camp" boundaries of which exact mobs "belong" to which player(s) as it would also have to take in account their group size or kill speed. (Unless you think the solo character camping 4 mobs gets to claim the full wing of 60 mobs even if it's only killing a few)

    The game's hard coding specifically grants the exp/loot to the group which does most damage. Enforcement does and should follow that basic rule.
    Metanis and code-zero like this.
  14. Yimin Augur

    If you are out DPSed sorry you will lose your mob and DBG does not have the personal to do anything about it .

    I would myself never camp steal this shows zero honor to my fellow players , i would ask if i could assist if i need it for hunter or a quests etc etc !

    YiMin
    Celephane likes this.
  15. Captain Video Augur


    The publisher doesn't disclose hard numbers. My numbers are crude estimates based on observed server populations, known guild stats and market activity. The distinction between 10K and 25K compares actual people vs. all boxes.

    EQ is never going back to its glory days of 500K subscribers. There is too much competition. Some keep playing for the tradition, others keep playing because they despair of other games' fluff and enjoy a game where you live by crunching the numbers. You're either going to like it as it is now, or you won't. Live servers do still have a defacto first-in-combat rule as an honor system; if you're playing on a Live server, I would give it more time before dismissing the entire game like that. And seriously consider joining a guild.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Not on its last legs. This is due to the TLP servers and all the garbage on them.

    Someone can correct me, but I believe they made some sort of first engage system automated that would "lock" the mob on someone (you couldn't kill and get credit if not first to engage), but people hated it and they just said "dps race, its what you want".

    Zone monopolization is still against the rules though, isn't it?
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    There are way more people than that.

    50k paid subs would be the low end of what would be likely. Heck, my guild alone has to have at least 250 paid subs between mains and alts, and I'm sure at least 20 other raid guilds are the same, and we're a drop in the bucket compared to casuals and non-raiders.
  18. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    "Camps" are a player thing and have never been recognized. It was always first to engage, then it changed to dps race, but people could always go and take mobs from your "camp", from day 1 until today.
  19. sojuu Augur


    I like the visual but I do not believe its the same. To say a zerker box tream running up on someone and DPS burning just because they happen to come up on a mob and being at the right place at the right time is more like the globetrotters beating up on a high school team.

    I guess my expectations are just too high and expect people to have a little class.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  20. Captain Video Augur


    You could be right. My very rough math was actually thinking an average of 250 subs per active raid guild on Live, times 50 guilds across all Live servers. Half that amount for non-raiding and casual guilds, and also half that amount for TLPs. There are anomalies: They lost between 4-6K monthly subs when they sold all those lifetime subs a couple of years ago. There has been some recent churn on the TLP side, due to the extreme networking issues, which is hard for me to gauge. And I perceive slightly more overlap between TLP and Live players. If my numbers were low, then the game is even healthier! :)