Hadden (and respecting camps)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by EchoFreya, Sep 29, 2020.

  1. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Thank you for proving that:

    “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” Socrates
    Funky, Lejaun and EchoFreya like this.
  2. Tweakfour17 Augur

    AFK kick timer isn't enabled on live servers or most TLPs, hence the giant pile of people who hang out in the Guild Lobby soaking buffs or at the bank in PoK or Nexus depending on where your server is in progression. It was turned on specifically for Aradune due to the queues during launch and as you mention, was easily beaten by having something move your character every so often.
  3. Protagonist Tank


    The thing where you were mocked for giving giant, rambling, cringy speeches on how you being bad at modern EQ was actually everyone else's fault?

    Super cool how you doubled down on that.
  4. Lejaun Augur

    Regardless of what current Darkpaw policy is and how other players take advantage of it, I will and always will remain a staunch supporter of "play-nice policies". Even in this early of a server's life on Aradune or Rizlona, there is plenty for me to do. If I go to a camp and someone is already there, I will move on to do something else. Even if the person there is one with the worst reputation for KSing camps or part of a guild that advocates it, I will move on.

    If I am with a group or guild members who want to take over a camp because we have a greater DPS composition or the numbers to do it, I will move on. If it is a group, I will leave that group. If it is with my guild, I will not participate and if it becomes a common trend I will leave that guild and find one that I consider more respectful of others.

    I treat others in game as I would in real life. I don't push my way through a checkout line at a store past other people waiting because I can. I either join that line at the end or I try to find a different line. I don't try to intimidate others even though I can.

    Maybe I'm too old school or just look through the older days with rose-tinted glasses. Regardless, even if I am the last person on the server who does so, I will respect others and what they are trying to accomplish. Make fun of me all you want, but I think the game would be more popular and friendly to new players if more people did the same.
    Bardy McFly and Elskidor like this.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    You can play by the PnP yourself, you just cannot expect anyone else to adhere to its tenets.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  6. Lejaun Augur

    In this day and age, I rarely expect anyone to adhere to such an attitude. It's a pleasant surprise when some do. That still won't stop me from being respectful of others in my play styles, regardless of what is considered the norm and acceptable in EQ these days.
    Bardy McFly and Skuz like this.
  7. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    Your skill in editing text between code tags has increased by (1).

    As Skuz outlines above, only someone on the losing side of an argument resorts to insulting behaviour by creating a quote that doesn't actually include text that someone else wrote.
  8. Captain Video Augur


    My live server was Trak, so now I'm on Vox since the latest server merge. I still get kicked to character select periodically. Doesn't ever happen in PoK or the guild lobby; in fact, I see people in random spots in PoK who haven't budged for days. My understanding has always been that they can set (or exclude) the timer on a zone-by-zone basis. On live servers nobody cares about this, because the old-school competition for these various OW spawns doesn't really exist.

    On TLPs, I seem to play a completely different game than most players who post/flame in these forums. I never cross paths with this kind of competition, there is always something for me to do elsewhere, and I don't raid there.
  9. Cicelee Augur

    How can you "AFK play" EQ on a once every five hour spawn?

    And to OP- you lost this battle. You lost one Hadden. Hopefully you will be at your PC, looking at your monitor, and are able to out DPS the next Hadden you are trying to get. Because that is what it is going to take on a TLP in the early expansions...
    Skuz likes this.
  10. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    Read the rest of this thread.

    This post was inspired by a whole lot more than one Hadden spawn, and nobody was AFK on a Hadden spawn. This was a "DPS race" by a stealth player who belongs to the "there are no camps in Everquest" group, all of whom have used a stunning amount of narrative re-writing to justify the behaviour despite the factual evidence (logs) that were presented.

    This example was the straw that broke the camel's back for me after experiencing countless similar encounters with others who are motivated to interact with others using antisocial behaviour.

    This behaviour has become alarmingly normalized, and I am seeking clarity around this issue. So far, I've learned a lot from a handful of player perspectives in this thread, but I have yet to see staff input. It's quite clear that the issue is a big problem.
    Elskidor likes this.
  11. Lejaun Augur


    Staff will usually not respond unless people start breaking rules rampantly, such as in personal attacks and/or naming others, and will only address those violations. Much like the DPS-races wins the argument in game and they won't dip their hands into contested camp arguments, they won't enter the forums either.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  12. German Augur

    The admission right here is you weren't paying attention and someone "ninja logged in" and beat you to it. I'm not sure you can really "ninja" log in. They must have had a better timer than you did.
  13. bardybard Augur


    You must be real thick ... the staff input is found right here https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230629007-What-are-the-EverQuest-Rules-of-Conduct-
    This issue is only a "big problem" to you, coming from p99, and wanting to play lawyer quest here. This is how the game works now, deal with it or stop playing.
    Smoki and Captain Video like this.
  14. Cicelee Augur

    Feels like the issue is more about your inability to understand EQ 2020 on TLP servers. You keep wanting EQ 2000, where stuff like this generally did not happen. Unfortunately in 2020, it happens a lot on TLP servers in the early expansions.

    You have said you have encountered many similar situations of "antisocial behavior" and this one was what broke the back. No offense, but maybe it is a "you" problem and not a "them" problem? Early TLP is run by bullies who will do whatever it takes to get what they want. From ground spawns to epic mobs to coveted camps, they control the game early on. And with no guides or GMs in game to do any policing, the devs have come out (as illustrated in a post oe two above mine) that it is a DPS race for mobs. You are asking for the in game police to protect you, but the problem is there is no in game police anymore.

    So you have options. You can get better and faster at DPS. You can get people to help you. You can choose to just not get the item. Or, maybe EQ 2020 is not the game foe you. Maybe it is time to find a new game.
    Funky and German like this.
  15. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    I don't see how resorting to insults should impact my right to express my opinion here (which reflects concerns felt by many other players), but thanks for your input.
  16. Lejaun Augur

    Agreed. Whether you agree with EchoFreya or not on this particular issue, there is no need to resort to personal attacks, which are one of the things on these forums that can and will get you suspended or banned from them.

    Make your point if you so choose, and move on. If you have to insult to do it, maybe your point wasn't so strong in the first place.
    Skuz likes this.
  17. Protagonist Tank


    Sometimes, you're not making a point. Sometimes, you're just taking easy shots at window-licking nerds who write a 3 page essay on proper video game manners and mistake being offended with being right.

    Sometimes, you're just slapping someone until all the stupid falls out of their mouth and they start quoting Socrates because they've replaced personality with pedantry.
  18. Captain Video Augur

    Emphasis mine.

    Not to defend the personal insults that get thrown around here a lot, but ForumQuesting requires thick skin. Having said that... who, exactly, are the "many other players" you're talking about? The server you're playing on was set up specifically for the benefit of players who prefer to box larger numbers, and I think it's fair to say they ALL understand the DPS-wins rule, except obviously you.

    If it's a more congenial atmosphere you're looking for, you're definitely on the wrong server. I repeat my prior suggestion that you consider trying out a Live server rather than a TLP, or perhaps try out Mangler, which is far enough along that the Classic content there is essentially uncontested. (Of course you'd need six computers to box six on Mangler.) EQ caters to a broad spectrum of players, with different amounts of time available and different casual-vs-hardcore goals to measure enjoyment of the game. Regardless of your opinion, you can't paint the entirety of EQ with one brush, like you're trying to do here.
    Bardy McFly likes this.
  19. EchoFreya Lorekeeper

    Thank you for providing what is probably the most considerate response in this thread.

    You are right, I was not prepared for EQ2020, and upon my return I was expecting a similar experience to what live servers were like 15-20 years ago. Why I had that expectation I don't recall for certain, but I'm pretty sure it was associated with promotional material I read when these servers were about to come out.

    If having issues with antisocial people is a problem, then yes, I own that. But I don't intend to change this perspective, because I don't believe it is ever OK to be abusive to others. I have a conscience, and I don't feel good when I hurt others (a mechanism that is absent in some people, a portion of whom actually delight in hurting others). I am also not a doormat, and I don't have tolerance for abuse. If my boundaries are crossed, I know how to advocate for myself and I am not easily intimidated. What other people choose to do with how I respond to their bad behaviour becomes their issue to resolve, or not. But complete lack of communication never resolves anything, and ultimately normalizes adverse behaviour.

    I cannot normalize antisocial or abusive behaviour. I can't see myself ever accepting statements like "Early TLP is run by bullies who will do whatever it takes to get what they want." I don't mean this as an offence to anyone who does, but I find the level of acceptance of this style of behaviour on these servers to be incredibly dysfunctional. In what other social environment is bullying considered OK? It is ludicrous to me that people think it's OK here.

    I may come to accept that I am paying for service operated by a company that does not care that it fosters this kind of environment, and when I do, I will make adjustments accordingly. I haven't arrived at this conclusion yet, but the lack of input by staff on this matter for as long as it has been going on is beginning to impact my choices.

    From my perspective, there is a responsibility attached to this (or any) product towards its consumers that ensures their safety and enjoyment. If elements of a product are defective in a way that impacts these things, then a company is responsible for at least doing due diligence to investigate and correct them, if not resolve them altogether. You call this "policing", but I call it "being responsible for the impact your product has on consumers". Part of this product is the community, and taking a "Lord of the Flies" approach to part of your product that causes distress and anxiety to your consumers is not fulfilling that responsibility at all.

    So ultimately no, I will never take the approach of "If you can't beat them, join them". I'm really surprised at how many seem to advocate for that approach, but I also know that only a small percentage of this community is vocal on these forums.

    Once again, thanks for taking the time to write a well thought out response. I have learned a lot from what you wrote.
    Lejaun likes this.
  20. Captain Video Augur


    Socrates never wrote anything and so can't be quoted. The best anyone can do is quote Plato's statements attributed to Socrates. And since Socrates chose to drink hemlock when he could easily have escaped from prison, he isn't exactly my philosophical role model. But what do I know, it's all Greek to me.