VP key the current cancer of Aradune

The neck from VT doesnt have an equal until at least GoD

While the VT neck is outstanding, there are better in P4+ in PoTime.

Admittedly I can't see your particular roster, but the fact that your guild is sitting on camps with level 50 SKs tells us one of the following...

1. You've got way too many members.

2. You're bad at farming.

3. You're c-blocking the entire server for no good reason.

Which is it?

As far as your Trakanon splits with lower numbers than everyone else, why don't you throw out a number to challenge the rest of the server then. Because a vague post like that could mean 60 per DZ and you'd still be doing it with less than the people with 72.

31 people.

Trakanon falls over.

I miss the good ole days of zerging Fear with 4 splits of 35 raiders each. Or zerging POSky at level 50 with 40 raiders in each raid.

The problem is everyone wants to get everything done in 1 week, 2 weeks but doesn't want to put in effort. Look at how many people cry about the Broken Golem. You're 2 weeks into an expansion and in guilds that can't mobilize to kill the golem in time, maybe you'll just have to wait. Fun fact, the loot isn't going anywhere and you still have 34 weeks of level 60. The same thing goes for VP keys, if your guild isn't going to mobilize to get camps and key people, maybe just wait a week or 2 more until other guilds that will, do.

aka: "compete with the highly organised &/or exploiters or get in the queue son".

That's how it still is even after changes, hence why many feel more changes are required.

People would be happy doing the quest were access to the quest spawns & items not so highly contested.

So on TLP either the solution to all the poor player experiences happening is either replace the quest or make it even more accessible (not easier) the only difficulty arising from the quest is created by high player density desiring to get it done, something the original quest never had to contend with.

The other option is do nothing further and allow the drama to continue happening on every successive TLP, telling players & guilds to wait or get in line doesn't quell anyone's frustratuons.

The definition of competition on TLP servers has become dominated by people seeking exactly how closely they can flirt with breaking rules, or how obviously they can break rules without being punished.

Unfortunately this has been the case as long as the TLP's have existed. Because the rules are generally there for a reason, and breaking them tends to give you advantage in competition, and competitors want to win.

Aye, sadly.

The problem is that the rules have been allowed to be pushed to the very line. People are allowed to get away with terrible behavior, and seldom is anything done. This only encourages the problem players and guilds to try to get away with even more.

Top it off with these people don't really care that much if their account gets banned. They troll on the forums and in game. They exploit where they can. If the get suspended or banned, they just log on their second main. It takes just a couple days for a dedicated player to get to max level, rather than the weeks and months that it used to take.

The inaction to take harder stances on toxic behavior means that it will continue because there is no repercussion for doing so.

That's always been the case and always will be the case. No matter where the line is, players will get as close to it (or as far over it) as they think they can, if it gives them a competitive advantage.

It's no different than professional sports, or any other competitive endeavor.

The difference now is that the line has been pushed back for years now. There is far less GM enforcement of toxic behavior than there used to be. People are allowed to get away now with things that wouldn't have been allowed before.

Blame DPG for that, not the players that recognize the reality of the situation and play accordingly.

I blame both. People should held accountable for their actions. Just because the rules allow someone to get so far doesn't mean that it is right. It is individual players and guilds choices as to how they behave in the game. The people with the toxic actions are responsible for what they do, not just how DPG chooses to levy enforcement or creation of rules to stop (or not stop) said behavior.

I'm on mangler. For what its worth. Our guild took the stance of work on the key if you want to see the content and have a chance at the drops. Don't if you don't care. We will award everyone dkp and make it an optional thing for our guild. It worked out well as those that busted butt to get their keys done got access to more drops and loot and the 10ish people or so that struggled to complete the quest or didn't even bother didn't complain about losing raid attendance. We warned them that this wouldn't be the case on future expansions however but we didn't want to force people to deal with the toxicity of AJ farming with quitting the game altogether.

Sounds like a good policy to have.

And you are incorrect (and still disagreeing with the wrong "quote"). The argument wasn't "you'll never see a single upgrade in an expansion", it's that the game wasn't pivoted into having class-specific gear progression until OoW.

No $h1t an expansion has upgrades. Seriously?

You’d need to be more specific about which quote you wish to discuss, as the conversation has shifted in some ways.

However, one thing that has not shifted is that VP does provide gear upgrades and people are cycling out some of their classic gear for VP gear, and they will do so in Velious and Luclin and PoP and on too.

I’m sure someone forced Barry Bonds to take steroids and Lance Armstrong to blood dope. Don’t blame the people actually doing the cheating, deflect and blame someone else!!!