VP key the current cancer of Aradune

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Yaboi, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    Zones should be gated by content, not by autoclickers and map hacks.

    Players should have zero right to prevent other players from seeing end game content on TLP servers.
  2. KermittheFroglok Augur


    Quick correction, I mean to say May earlier, not Feb.

    Again, it's lame that cheaters are getting the first wave of access but it's still VERY EARLY in the expansion timeline to be angry and upset over VP access.

    But to digress, your flight comparison makes no sense. As others have pointed out, THERE ARE NOT 5,000 people going for the key concurrently. You're exaggerating because you're frustrated that you're not on the cutting edge of the expansion's content. Frankly, you need to accept that you won't be and that there's no issue or reason to stress over it.

    I'd liken this to sports, not vacation If you're not competitive or dedicated enough to train for a Division 1 college, then just go Division 3. It's no big deal, its the same game and you can still have fun. If you aren't willing to bulk up for a heavy weight fight, then stay in your weight class and just shrug off that people aren't paying as much attention to your fight because they follow the "heavy weights". If you don't like waiting to get keyed into a raid on the newest (and most competitive) TLP, than go to an older TLP or move to Live. Frankly, nothing stops you from moving to Rizlona either. Do what you enjoy where its in your means, but don't force others to come down to your lower level of competitiveness.

    If you really think VP is "easy" in era then you've probably never been there. VP is more challenging than getting there. Trakanon aside, getting there pretty much just take patience, that's nothing new when it comes to the older expansions' end game content.

    You're not being respectful in that you're trying to ignore the reality that endgame content is meant to be experienced at the end of the game and that this game's older content was built with bottlenecks to slow progression. Decades ago, The Devs didn't want most people finished Ruins of Kunark in a month, and likewise they probably don't want most people done the expansion 3 weeks in, opposed to closer to 3 months.

    I've already explained to you that the content you want easier access to is already more easily accessible on other servers. I've already acknowledged that cheaters are probably pushing your progress back a couple weeks and that's on the Devs to fix. The Devs have already tried to accommodate us without making it too easy for most of us to clear it super early. It's up to you to either be patient and accept things like VP access & Epics take time and effort on the "current" TLP, or to move somewhere less competitive where you can be happier progressing at the pace you want.

    Sadly, that's all the advice I can give you.
  3. Tweakfour17 Augur

    This is mostly my feelings too, if you could zerg VP on minute 1 of Kunark and clear it, then what? Do that every week for 12 weeks. At least the key quest gives you something to pick away at or poop sock depending on your guild's level of dedication.
  4. Pawtato Augur


    I don't get this mindset. This means more guilds would have more options for their couple nights a week of raiding. Plus, you get the benefit of weekend pickup raids doing a variety of content. All you need for proof is ToV with no required flags, raid numbers have seen an uptick and there's been successful pickup raiding.
    Thalliius and Skuz like this.
  5. Sikkun Augur

    Obviously it’s much better because THEY want to do VP for the 3 months, but it’s bad if anyone else does. They might lose a Velious race with themselves or something.
    Thalliius and Skuz like this.
  6. malliee New Member

    Man reading the forums you can really tell how many players didnt play on Live during kunark. Saying timers should be atleast half of live is funny. Ground spawns went from 10 hours to 30 mins Phs went from 30 mins to 10 or less for most trak drops ton of items now instead or 2 or 3 each kill its 1000 times better then it was on line. Yes it can suck doing the quest on you main and alts but it isnt that bad if your guild assists
    KermittheFroglok likes this.
  7. Tweakfour17 Augur

    Alot of the more casual guilds I've seen on Aradune still doing Fear/Hate/Naggy/Vox/Sky and then VS/Sev/Trak/Talendor, tons of raid content to do unless you spent 12 weeks hitting every OW mob as it spawned
  8. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Feels like an Agnarr flashback.

    Way back when we said they should up the times of everything, ala Seb key. You still go through the motions of the quest, but the poopsock is entirely eliminated.
    Skuz likes this.
  9. Yaboi New Member

    You actually didn't play on live during Kunark. There were like 20 servers and it took roughly 6-8 months to get from 50-60. VP keys being on longer timers were fine. There were no bottlenecks back in 1999-2000.

    The ground spawns are also an hour long, not 30 minutes. When 5000 people are trying to do a key on one server it's extremely contested and toxic and needs to be altered.
    Thalliius and Skuz like this.
  10. KermittheFroglok Augur


    It's true leveling took much longer, but there definitely were bottlenecks back in the day, very often much if not everything was contested to some degree, hence why we use to have to practice of camps and waiting lists. The only difference is that the social order of camps has collapsed on TLP and everyone wants/has to "DPS race".
  11. KermittheFroglok Augur


    Again, that mindset ignores that VP is endgame in Kunark. As others have pointed out there are plenty of other raids you can do, VP being more available later really doesn't hinder you or your chances of finding a fun raid to do with your guild or guild's ally's.

    If you want open raids like in ToV, then play on Live? ToV being so open is largely overcompensation for how ridiculous Burning Lands content being locked behind progression was. Although, based off this thread I imagine many on Aradune will be freaking out when they need to clear the Burning Lands progression to advance past even the first zone :confused:
  12. Xyphen Maximum Augur

    Plenty of other raids? Trak, VS, Talendor, Gorenaire, Sev. Grats on your 1 raid night/wk. Maybe 1 1/2 if you want to bring overkill to an epic fight.

    Remove Veeshan's Peak and cut the Kunark timeline in half. Everything about VP is awful, and the only reason people do it is because they hate themselves and there's not enough content in Kunark.
  13. Siah Elder


    This is my first time doing Kunark content in era, and I must say that I just finished my VP key and did my first VP raid today, and it is a really cool and unique zone and I'm loving it! There are a lot of unique and stellar clicky items as well as some very good gear. Not sure where all this talk about VP key not being worth it, I'm kinda glad I put in the time necessary in order to get my key. I'm having a lot of fun doing it and am looking forward to our next VP raid!
  14. Xyphen Maximum Augur

    An overwhelmingly vast majority of loot in VP is terrible. There are maybe 3 or 4 items in the entire zone that have any staying power to/through Velious.
  15. Siah Elder

    So content isn't worth doing unless the items are best in slot throughout more then 1 expansion? So when velious hits, then anything that drops that isn't good enough until luclin is useless too? So on and so fourth. Seems like that would be a terrible way to play the game and considering there is still another 10 weeks of Kunark remaining before Velious, I'd much rather want to be in VP getting whatever I can that's an upgrade than not going/getting anything at all.. Just saying.
    Skuz likes this.
  16. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    People want to experience VP in era - because as already said it's very likely that most players did NOT get to experience it in era, unless it was on a TLP previously.

    It doesn't matter if the loot is complete garbage, it is content they want to see & experience, reducing their desires to see that content to purely acquiring pixels is you completely missing the point of what a TLP is all about - and it simply isn't all about the loot, the loot is a part of it but certainly not the overriding factor.
    ttin and Thalliius like this.
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Just to frame my perspective better I play on Phingel which is currently at level cap 105 & has Empires of Kunark unlocked, so I am not personally impacted or upset by the situation on the latest TLP personally.

    My interest in the keying for VP issue is based on what I feel the purpose of a TLP server is, and what I think benefits the TLP community better "as a whole" not just a tiny few "elite of the elite" minded players who feel like TLP is some form of valid race and really are just seeking some form of competitive advantage if they are honest.
    TLP purpse is really about them being a dynamic partaking of a re-reun of the game's timeline using the modern game's codebase, to bring back players, make the game more money & secure the long term future of the franchise & the jobs that support it.
    TLP so far have had an accelerated unlock schedule somewhere between three and twelve times faster than the expansions unlocked on live servers.
    TLP servers don't have anything like the same populations, mix of player types, mix of guild types that Live servers had, they have a 20 years vintage distilled variety of almost exclusively high-end in-era raiders that none of the live servers ever saw at any point in their lives.
    Making comparisons between live & TLP therefore needs to be done carefully to avoid just being a bunch of bogus arguments.

    Well every day more obtain the key so the number is going to depreciate every day, while I will concede that 5,000 was likely an overly large estimatation it's an appropriate scale, even at half that number it would still be vastly more massive than live servers ever saw in era.

    I'm really not. when I did VP with my then guild Darkwind on Ragefire we had the frustration of the keying to contend with, that was March 2016, and Darkwind were pretty much as "cutting edge" as any other guild on the server then but after 4 years my frustrations are long since dead.

    I, nor any other player, do not have to accept anything, that's the clear point of a forum for discussions and those discussions are often between opposing points of view, where there is a place for discussing hard concrete rules & just as equally a place to discuss their merits & defecits.

    I personally don't think it is healthy for the game to have such a keying quest that was designed for a game from 18 years ago still be considered perfectly suited to the current TLP demographics, it is not fit for purpose because it creates a bottle neck which is vastly larger on TLP owing to the changes in the population the TLP have versus the live servers, the TLP are not like live servers at all so the rules you seem to be so wedded to & the ideologies you have carried over from those live server experiences do not necessarily carry the same weight as they once did, the TLP are a different beast ideologically, in the experience they provide to players, and mechanically in the way they deliver content. Changes to the key quest have already been made, my contention is they haven't gone far enough yet.

    But it is not designed as a sport at all, this game is collaborative far more than it is competitive, guilds as collections/groups of players may compete aginst others for bragging rights on who beat what event first but the keying quest is not some intelligence, skill or might test, at the most it is a test of a guild's organisational capacity and that's in reaction to the bottleneck of the keying quest not as a test of player ability, it's like the company receptionist is your MVP and all the workers merely drones.

    Arguing the keying is a competition is really a stretch, if your guild is truly "competitive" then your guild & every other guild would be saying, okay we will key the whole server as fast as possible & then we all race to clear VP as fast as we can, the whole server being keyed being the "starter's gun".
    If anything VP should be completely locked until all guilds have fully keyed every member & then VP unlocks & all the guilds race to beat it first, then it would be a competitive event.

    The best way to keep VP "competitive" would be to remove the key quest altogther & have VP unlock after 6 weeks, then everyone gets to try VP and "race" for sever first with a much more level playing field.

    Been there thanks, in era, on Ragefire & again on Phinigel, so your assumptions are baseless.
    It took longer to get keyed for VP than it did to beat VP for my guild twice and it took less organisational muscle to beat it than key for it both times. I stand by my assertion.

    There is nothing disrepectful about disagreement, to contend otherwise is being an absolutist "it's my way or the highway pal" type of thinker.

    The "end game" of live bears absolutely no reasonable comparisons to the "end game" of TLP servers, they are wildly different environments, refusing to take the huge differentials between what live was 18 years ago & and what TLP are now into account is being stubborn & intractable.

    [IMG]

    Where have they said that this is what they want TLP to be like, where have they ever stated the design goal of where they want most people?

    Missing the entire point, well done /golfclap.

    Yes the devs have made it easier than it was, all I am saying is that they need to go further and that the changes made so far are insufficient, it's not rocket-science.

    No, I have a choice, I can either choose to acquiesce or I can choose to argue for further changes, that's all I did, choose.

    Thank you for taking the time to give your perspective, even if I disagree with you I respect the time & thought that you clearly put into expressing your opinion.

    I have listened to your advice, I won't be taking it..

    Have a nice day :)
    Aneuren and Thalliius like this.
  18. Thalliius Augur

    Everquest isnt a competition, its an MMORPG. Its just a few elitist batphone guilds that have turned into it some sort of race competition or something

    Also, the entire idea of "competition" for raid zones is ridiculous, they added AoCs to the game specifically so that raiding was no longer a matter of competition, but of guild progression through the content.

    Go play a first person shooter or some ranked League of Legends type game if you want to play competitive stuff
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Thalliius Augur

    There are people who legit just want the content all to themselves, even though there are AoCs lol. I don't ever remember there being such anti-social guilds within an EQ community as there are on the TLPs these days

    Cant wait until the vast majority of them migrate over to the next new TLP so that they can exploit and turn that into a cesspool
  20. Thalliius Augur


    Dude, MMO RPGs are not competitions! End game content is supposed to be challenging and part of guild progression, its not supposed to be a competition where an entire guild that dont appear to have jobs or any other responsibility lock down a bottleneck key component to get into it and prevent anyone else from accessing that content

    Its like someone whos in a group of people and says "lets race to the car!" and they go darting off, while everyone else just looks at each other, shrugs and keeps walking normally. Then the person gets to the car first and proclaims "I WON!"

    That is how some on these boards come across... they are in a "competition" with nobody, its like theyre in a race all by themselves and then pat themselves on the back for winning said race.. while taking a dump on everyone they come into contact with in the game world, ruining the fun for others