Account Wide Progression Discussion

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Prophecychild, Aug 21, 2020.

  1. Prophecychild New Member

    Like many people here, I have a long history with, and strong passion for Everquest. And while I have definitely not logged as many days played as some, I have come back to the game more than a few times wanting to take part in the game again. Some of those times I got hooked and dumped many months to years of playtime, other times I didn't last a week. The key difference each time boils down to one thing. How easy it was it to find people to play with.

    Now there are a lot of factors to this. Server size could be adjusted through server merges to keep the numbers up. Players could come back during the beginning of an expansion to maximize joining at peak player activity. But the one I want to discuss is about designing mechanics that incentivize active inter-personal play for longer, specifically the idea around account wide progression.

    What I mean by account wide progression is simple - making progress on alts contributes to the power level of all other characters on the same account.

    The exact details of this I do not have a strong opinion on, but it would be akin to having some progression AAs or something that increases as you level other characters on that account. This has been successfully done in many games, most of which have been received positively. However, there are not many games that are quite like EQ either, so I wanted to see what the community thought about the idea. Some reasons I think this would be a good idea are as follows:

    1. Mechanically, if done right, it can be a very satisfying way to extend player progression. While this point is mostly subjective, it's very interesting to play the many different classes the game has to offer. And doing so just as a box, where your main focus is still the primary account (all my ranger on my other account knows how do is headshot) does not quite achieve the same experience.

    2. It extends playtime for players in the area best suited for hooking in returning and new players. Leveling. A lot of the player base tends to stagnate in the state of only logging on for raids, and as a result anyone returning has to mostly rely on the kindness/boredom of those players to play with them. No max level player is going to go back a few expansions to grind out exp where the returning players are. Meaning returning players just have to hope that they know someone that is willing to help, or hope that other returning players come back at the same time and at the same place. That or box. If those stagnating players now have progression through leveling alts, you've just increased those chances tenfold.

    3. It increases a chance of a reset. What I mean by that is, the longer a player plays a character, the less interest they will have overtime. Eventually leading to total burnout. Being fully raid geared, max AAs, nothing to farm in group or progression. Everyone has their own breaking point. Many people end up making alts to start the process over out of boredom, end up liking another class more, and they then make that character their main and start the process over. Most people do not make a new character out of boredom, they just stop playing. This could increase those odds and keep players engaged with the game longer.

    4. It allows for less guilt. There has always been a subtle taboo about wasting time on alts when your main character still needs things done. This is even more true with returning players. If you come back, 20 levels behind cap, no one to group with, and your goal is catch up quickly to get out of that situation; you're less likely to form a group with that level 56 player looking for someone to play with, even if doing so would actually be much more fun and engaging since it seems like a "waste of time".

    There are many more points I could make for a system like this, and even many I could make against it. But this post is already long-winded enough (sorry about that) and I'd love to hear other opinions on it. I have no strong attachment to these ideas, so please speak your mind if this topic interests you at all. My hope is that we can have a meaningful conversation that could give the EQ devs insight into a direction that improves the experience for returning players, and subsequently improves the health of the player base long-term.
  2. Buster_Shruggs Augur

    Being able to dump AAs, xp, or "progression" onto an alt is a boxer's dream. Although, I do not use Fellowship vitality myself, I know its a tool already in the game that not only account alts can utilize, but any fellowship member can also. With Overseer xp, merc AA rewards you can claim them on any toon on the account. As far as being able to spread the love with progression, I don't think that's a good idea when it comes to the game's longevity. I have multiple accounts and an average of 2 to 3 toons on each, so this would definitely benefit me. I respect your opinion and you have some valid points, but I don't feel they represent any majority in the game. I was going to address each of your points, but I feel you hit it right on the button when you said "this point is mostly subjective."
  3. Prophecychild New Member

    To clarify.

    The account progression I am talking about is not about sharing with alts (which is meant to make it easier for leveling alts) and more an incentive to make alts in the first place. There are tools in the game currently for sharing, but no built in driving mechanic behind doing so.

    Also when I talk about alts, I am not speaking of a separate account (box), as it's about account wide progression, not multiple accounts etc...

    Another way to think of it is that every character has a max limit of their effectiveness, max AA, BiS gear, etc... this would make it so that leveling an alt would raise that max limit for your characters. Meaning min/maxing would require making alts. Which pushes out the end of the road so to speak.

    I'm not saying any of this in contradiction to what you said, just wanted to clarify.

    I am however curious about what damage you think it would do concerning the game's longevity. My instinct was to think it would be good for the game longevity, and it was more likely to do damage short term with people seeing it as "too grindy".

    Long-term wise, it adds more "content", or rather gets more use out of each piece of content, without needing extra ongoing dev involvement (aside from the system itself, and they are on a tight budget as-is.) And the hope in my mind is that it retains players better, meaning a healthier player base long-term.

    But I would love hear what damage you think would be done too, since that kind of discussion is what I wanted by opening this thread =P
  4. Mazame Augur


    NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!! just to make it clear NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

    I have 4 accounts I play play many different toon. but only 3 of them had made it to max level. Why because I enjoy the class I am playing. my main account is a Bst. It is the only toon on that account I do not want to have to make alts on his account just to min/max him
    Coagagin and Yinla like this.
  5. Buster_Shruggs Augur

    Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood what you meant by progression. I was under the impression that you meant if my Main was working on ToV progression then my alt on that account would also benefit(progress). That misunderstanding lead me to the point that I would have no real reason/desire to play my alt since he would be at the same point as my main.

    I enjoy having alts, because I always have the option of working on something different which, for me , helps to stave off burnout. Knowing that working on an alt would extend the min/max for my main sounds like a great idea to me. However requiring someone make an alt to be able to min/max their main is not going to be received well imo.

    For me, a big part of the allure of EQ is that I can play "my way." For example, ToV progression seems to be the current optimal path to leveling up to 115. I did this for my main roster, but my alts are leveling up in zones that are not as crowded, zones I enjoy more, and doing older tasks/missions. If ToV progression was the only way to hit max level, then I would be less likely to have as many alts as I do.

    Your idea of needing to make alts to be able to maximize your main would definitely work for someone like myself. I don't think it would go over to well with the majority of players though. Perhaps if your idea was implemented as an alternative path one could take to maximizing their main it would be well received.

    Anything that is "the ONLY" way to do things in EQ is a detriment to the game imo.
  6. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    Focusing on one character only, should not limit that character progression imo.
    Yinla likes this.
  7. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    Interesting idea but not for me. I have my "main" account that has my main character. This account also has 3 unclaimed Heroic boosts. Why? Because I do not want more "main" characters on that account. And what good is a level 85 Heroic bazaar tradero_O

    Just like all my other accounts have a "main" character ie: Enchanter, Shaman, SK etc and they are all separate accounts with unused Heroic slots on them also.

    I may be odd but chances are there are other players like myself that don't like having to choose which ONE character you can play at a time from ONE account.

    Plus DPG makes a mint off me.
    Yinla likes this.
  8. Sissruukk Rogue One

    I will have to say no to this. I only have one main, and still have unclaimed heroics on the account. I enjoy only playing one character, and would not want to tie its effectiveness in with having to have to play alts.
  9. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    Terrible idea... I have alts, but on different accounts. I would never want alts on the same account just to make the first one "better".
  10. Natal Augur

    One word: NO!
  11. Prophecychild New Member


    The progress would be shared on all characters. So the min/max aspect would apply to all characters. It wouldn't all feed into one chosen character. The idea behind a "main" character is meant to address those that would be doing so JUST for enhancing said character. I see boxing as an entirely different thing, the benefit you get from that is instant self grouping, allowing you to solo more content, and that benefit would remain unchanged.
  12. Prophecychild New Member

    For the concerns about forcing alts, or being tied to progression concerns.

    I am not talking "you have to have 4 max level characters before you join a raid guild" type of impact. I am thinking of it in the same camp as much of the other optional busywork end-game min/maxing has. An incentive, not a requirement.

    It would only be truly required to progress your character once you've literally done everything there is to do in the game (BiS augs/items, back flag progression, trade skills, achievements, clickies, etc....) And even then, it would act as bonus progression, meaning that if you opted out, you would be in the same position you are now. Though I do understand that if there is more to be done, people will feel compelled to do it. But I feel the majority of the players don't actually get to that point, they ignore the things they don't feel like doing, and this would be the same.

    That said,
    I can understand that philosophy, especially in the RP or truebox servers where there is more tied to your avatar than just mechanics.
  13. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    I think the majority of people who play alts, have them on another Account. Tying Char boosts to having multiple alts on the same account won't appeal to very many people, those who do enjoy/have alts already have them split between various accounts. There's been several posts recently asking about Account to Account transfers so players can move an alt on one char's account to a different account.

    There's very few people who have multiple max lvl char's on the same account which would mean the majority of people would have to start a brand new char or heroic char to even start that route of progression, I don't see that as something many people would want to do/enjoy at this point.

    The TLP servers do a great job of bringing people together for the earlier content, players can start there and lvl up with a server full of people all at the same point. Once they get towards the end game they can transfer to one of the normal servers if needed to jump into end game content/raiding.
  14. Prophecychild New Member

    Also just from a personal preference, this is not something I would want to actually do with my account either. Leveling in the current EQ climate is boring and long. But a big reason it is long and boring is due to how desolate the player base in that area is.

    I've never had an alt above level 50, and have played the same character when I play EQ for 19 years now, so I am not proposing this as some preference thing, more of a game design discussion and if it would have a positive impact on the health of the game.

    So I definitely understand the "I don't want to have to do this" comments. Though I feel addressing the why's of why you don't could lead to an acceptable design of the (vague) concept. If your gut reaction is no, why is it no? What would have to change to make it work for you, keeping the positive outcomes but removing the negative aspect.

    What if the rewards you got were more convenient/tertiary rewards rather than directly relating to combat power? Example: You level a shaman to level XX, you unlock a shrink self AA on all your characters. This would give you the option to either farm and carry a clicky on each character without, or to level a shaman.
  15. seber Augur

    hell no ...............................................................
  16. Prophecychild New Member


    I think you are correct about TLP servers, though I haven't actually played them, I can tell by their popularity. They do a great job for forcing players into the same content range, allowing for those who want to start fresh a place to get hooked. But I want to bring some of that same energy to regular servers as well, for those returning players that are coming back not for the nostalgia of an older expansion, but the nostalgia of playing the toon(s) they left behind, and the community/server they remember.

    I think you are also correct about the typical player having alts spread across accounts, but I don't believe that has become the norm due to personal preference as much as it has slowly become a requirement in the mind of many. Many I know with 2-6 box characters do so not because they enjoy it, but because they feel it is the only reasonable way to farm exp, progression or group items that they need. And with boxing so easy to do with mercs taking care of the more reactive intense roles (healing), there is very little reason NOT to roll your new alts in other accounts, aside from money concerns.

    That said, I think you would see more single accounts with alts if the road from 1-115 was not so desolate. That part of the game is in a very unhealthy state for bringing in players to keep the base healthy, and I would love to see it even 1/5th of what TLP is.