Against EULA to afk inbetween rare spawns?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Adobebodi, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. Nuttmeg Augur

    I want to help you understand. Let's start with unattended. EQ is unattended when you are not actively looking at or interacting with it.
    Let's talk about "a few seconds" the rule specifically states if you must be away for more than a few seconds, you need to move away.

    Ok, now which part can I help with? Where exactly does it seem unclear that you can't afk minutes at a time only to be alerted by getting hit?
    Skuz and Nennius like this.
  2. Nuttmeg Augur

    If the rule were intended to mean "listening only" passes the threshold of "attended gameplay " GMs would use voice chat instead of text to check on whether you were at the keyboard.
    Skuz likes this.
  3. Captain Video Augur


    Those are the rules of the game on this server. If you don't like it, EQ has other servers where this rule isn't so rigidly enforced. Players have options. Declaring themselves above the rules and free to do whatever they want isn't one of them. GM enforcement on this particular server was very clearly announced in advance.

    Personally, I don't sit and wait for that long at a spawn point, I go do other things in-game, there is always tons to do. If someone else sees a spawn before I do, they're welcome to it. My sense of entitlement may not be the same as yours, of course. If it's a spawn with a drop I absolutely need, e.g. for an epic, I muster a group to help me, in exchange for my helping other people somewhere along the line. That's kind of how an MMO is intended to work. The people I tend to group with take a dim view of anyone alt-tabbing away from the game unannounced, for any reason.
  4. Gnothappening Augur

    Bleh, don't worry, GMs will be gone in another three months or so and then people will be crying for other reasons.Then again, maybe they will keep the hardcore GM presence, in which case the server will probably be dead midway through SoL. Once you introduce AA, the hurdle of grinding for new and returning players goes up exponentially. If they keep the hardcore GM presence, I look forward to reading the delicious posts about how so and so's group was banned in the Deep.
  5. Gheed Is not reading your response

    So according to you, breaking the "rules" on Aradune is not allowed but I should go break the rules on a different server and thats okay? I think you guys are not understanding the rules to be honest. You sound like the type of guy that would report your groupmate if he said "brb using the restroom". Yet the entitled one is... ME?

    It is pretty funny the lengths you guys are trying to go to justify people getting banned for just about anything on this server. It truly is turning into a carebear paradise. In GoD people spawn DZs to wait for goats ALL the time; why has nobody been banned for that in the past? Apparently we are all just picking and choosing when to enforce something whenever it suits our agenda.
  6. Bigz_Zupdarty Augur

    good thing no one poopsocks anymore.. we'd see guild wide suspensions atm..
    Machen likes this.
  7. StiTch.ed Journeyman

    In these cases I often like to think of the counterpoint and see if that puts things in perspective.

    The rules against AFK farming are here to prevent people not even playing the game actively from hogging spawns and resources. This has historically been a problem in particular when it comes to either sensitive spawn locs, or to farm drops using text alerts.

    For you, it may be trying to get a few kills while you watch netflix. For others, it may be a genuinely hard working player, actually at the screen trying to get himself some new gear, and finding that the spot is taken by Nigel the max level Ikky letting his pet kill everything and farming the drops to sell in multiples on his trader or farming AA exp.

    Explain why Nigel deserves to push players, who are actually at the screen, out of spots for xp or gear?
  8. Gheed Is not reading your response

    I think you are mistaking what side I am on. I think any AFK UNATTENDED GAMEPLAY (which would involve actually killing mobs/foraging/etc) SHOULD have action taken against them.

    However, to achieve this goal I am not willing to stoop so low that I am now justifying banning ANYONE who is AFK for any amount of time. If my groupmate needs to get up and use the restroom which might take longer than "a few seconds" should he now be banned? If a player is a father and he needs 5 minutes of AFK in my group to put his kids to bed, should he now be banned? If I want to go downstairs and make a coffee, and I inform my group of this(which they are fine with), should I now be banned for being AFK?

    I think the stretching of the rules is reaching the lengths of insanity at this point.

    Edit: I also never said an AFK botter deserves any loot or spawns, so not sure what you are even talking about in your post.
    Genoane likes this.
  9. StiTch.ed Journeyman


    Okay, I can accept this as an answer.

    Unfortunately I think we both already know the functional reason for the strictness. Do you want to be the guy, heading a few moderators, that has to take every single case of AFK farming ever across all the servers and backtrack through game data and player written accounts and potential connection lag and so on, to identify whether that case was "acceptable" or not...and then repeat it for every OTHER case of rulebreaking and reporting?

    Looking at player accounts of their encounters with bans and appeals I'd say the moderation team/whatever they are called is already stretched relatively thin.

    And then you have to justify that effort and what is realistically money, in the form of paid moderator time. Should they put this effort and money in so that a few people can watch netflix while they wait for spawns? I'm not so convinced.

    I understand your frustration and I'm always the first to make sure an authoritative body of any form does its job fairly. But IMO this is all entirely fair, it's hard to justify the work so that people can play the game without playing the game.

    Just play the damn game ;)
  10. Gheed Is not reading your response

    So your question is, would I like to be the guy that APPLIED for the job that requires him to sift through petitions made by players and possibly *gasp* backtrack through game data to identify whether that player deserves to be banned or not and then repeat that process in order to be fair when reviewing potential rulebreaking cases?

    My obvious answer would be no, hence why that is not my occupation. However, it IS their chosen occupation and I think excusing wrongful bans or doing a job so that it takes the minimal amount of effort with "they are stretched thin" or "its too hard" or "its not fair for the GMs" is a useless thing to say.

    Basically, you are saying there is no issue with innocent people being banned as long as they manage to get a few guilty parties in the process. Unfortunately I do not share that viewpoint and I am just glad they aren't in charge of anything else besides Everquest.
  11. StiTch.ed Journeyman


    Seeing as you're resorting to blatant exaggeration to try and make them sound morally reprehensible despite my best efforts to be tactful, I'll simplify my comment to make it clearer for you:
    Money doesn't grow on trees, whether we like it or not. This kind of detailed dispute resolution effectively takes money, and is even then difficult because you rely on "player accounts". What part of the game's development do you want to see given up so someone can watch Netflix before spawns? And even then...even if it were simpler...I don't see why they should do it.

    You're making an awfully big moral noise about your ability to watch TV while playing. It's not a big moral issue - in fact it's not a moral issue at all. If you wanna play the game, play the damn game.
  12. Gheed Is not reading your response

    Moral noise, nope? Simply saying people should be expected to do their job that they chose to take and excuses should not be made for someone doing a poor job..... Which is a point you brought up in the first place. I am sorry that my disagreement with your stance is causing you to get so upset.
  13. Captain Video Augur


    Aradune isn't in GoD, it's in Classic. By the time it gets to GoD, the entire argument will be moot. It was VERY CLEARLY STATED that Aradune would have an additional GM presence not previously available on any of the other TLP cycles. This is scheduled to run for at least six months (into Velious) as an experiment. DPG will then decide if it's done enough good to warrant further extension. It was a predictable result that more GM time = more suspensions. The repeated claim by those who are whining about having been suspended is that bans are willy nilly, which is also a predictable response. I've played EQ on and off for nearly 20 years, and I've never once been suspended. None of the people I know playing on Aradune now have ever been suspended. It can be done. If you're going to accuse DPG employees of doing a poor job, I'd use less rhetoric and more actual evidence.

    As another poster said, play the game. It's a lot more fun, trust me.
  14. Gheed Is not reading your response

    I have not been suspended either. The issue is clear in your post; the automatic assuming of everyone being guilty just because they were handed a suspension. Then the same people are saying "cut the GMs some slack I am sure they are super overworked and stretched thin". You can't have it both ways.

    Either the GMs are stretched too thin and you are acknowledging that there are definitely people being banned for things they shouldn't be OR everyone that gets a ban is 100% guilty because the GMs have plenty of people working on their team and are investigating each case thoroughly.

    Also just because there is MORE GM presence on a server does not mean that suddenly things that were not against the rules or ban worthy before are now worthy of a ban despite no change in any rules regarding "AFKing".

    I have no clue how being in a GoD DZ and being in a classic DZ are different at all. If you get banned in a SolB DZ waiting for giant to spawn, then you should get banned in a Qvic DZ waiting for goats to spawn. You guys just aren't consistent, and that is the issue. I am glad you are proving my point though by automatically assuming I have been suspended or am breaking rules just because I disagree with your viewpoints. It really is quite sad.

    I play the game plenty and again thanks for a great suggestion. Yikes
  15. Sikkun Augur

    Pointing out the rules is pointless.

    Really most the people pointing them out don’t actually believe the story to begin with.

    Odds someone got banned while innocently doing nothing wrong vs them being upset they got caught botting and looking for sympathy.

    I know which side of that bet I’ll take.
    Skuz likes this.
  16. Gheed Is not reading your response

    I am also not saying that bans are being handed out willy nilly but that something seems odd. Suddenly people are being banned for afking in an instance, which has not happened before and makes no sense considering mobs don't respawn in instances so how are you AFK farming a non-respawning spawn???
  17. StiTch.ed Journeyman

    Wouldn't normally stoop to reply further to this kinda discussion, but friendly note to say they ARE doing their job. You simply don't like the rules they are enforcing, and that's tough cookies.

    Have a good day :) xxx
  18. Bullsnooze Augur

    Oh?

    That sounds pretty 'Willy Nilly' to me.

    I understand your devil's advocacy perspective, but you've been just shy of flip-flopping with each post and riding the rails game. The thing is that people can post whatever they want and most of the time its tailored as if they were the victim (with no evidence) and we all know people will run to the forums when they feel the need to vent or in the OPs case unintentionally prove his/her guilt. Everyone is free to believe what they want, but usually folks in such as situation are guilty when no evidence is provided. If they weren't guilty, why vent or seek support with a forum post (and no evidence)? Why not provide supporting evidence to Dark Paw support to overturn the suspension?

    Also, lets not forget that Dark Paw doesn't recognize camps! You aren't camping anything in their eyes. So if you're sitting there at a spawn point waiting for a specific NPC to spawn, they do not care.

    Brother or sister, the writings on the wall.
  19. Gheed Is not reading your response

    What evidence should someone provide to prove that they are at their keyboard but just waiting for a mob to pop so they are not actively playing the game? How does someone even ACTIVELY play Everquest while they are literally sitting and waiting for a 28 minute respawn?

    I think providing "evidence" of not being AFK is much easier said than done unless you are streaming with a VOD.

    I am sorry that I don't share the viewpoint of guilty until proven innocent like so many white knights on these forums. I assume people did NOT break the rules while you assume the opposite, plain and simple. Afaik Darkpaw provides NONE of the evidence that is gathered before issuing a ban so how exactly do people provide evidence to refute that which isn't shared with them?

    The new GMs obviously do not have a firm grasp of how to check for AFK players or what even constitutes "afk gameplay". Obviously a lot of people on the forums do not either. A guy in a different thread said that getting up to use the restroom while not logging out is AFK gameplay and warrants a ban; its an absolute joke.

    Also, of course people usually don't come to the forums unless they are suspended. These forums are terrible and as proven in this thread are full of piggybackers that are SO QUICK to claim OP is a hacker/botter/etc/etc/etc when they also have no evidence.
  20. Laronk Augur

    You can literally use a timer on your phone or in a browser or a gina trigger