Selo Truebox

What if tlps are supposed to lose truebox at live status? Would that charge anything?

I have to disagree here, every server has some level of automation going on, you just dont know about it. Miragul, which has a small pop, had/has a guy killing all of Sirens and Griegs since the server launched with automation. It hasn't really effected us as again we are a small server and we all just help each other giving TS mats and things normally sold in the bazaar but that guy is definitely into his thing and thinking that Truebox would / is stopping him or people like him is laughable. Maybe MAYBE when Truebox first launched 5 years ago with Phinny it stopped many EmQue'ers but at this point all those who wanted to get around the firewalls have, just look at the new servers Mangler, Aradune, etc which have been plagued with these people.

What would more botting change? Almost everything past OoW is in instances, at most that person might take a named camp in open world, but then you can easily outfox a automated crew without training them, I played live as well when automated 6 boxers were everywhere, yeah it was annoying on rare occasion and but you know whats more annoying? In an age of mercs having to have 2 computers on the desk for no reason. Truebox was a very good thing in classic, it kept the multiboxers from taking over the world like they did on Ragefire when everything is open world and populations are at maximum level.

But once pop dies down and the game moves to instances 6 boxers aren't the menace they once were.

Our experiences obviously differ because all the boxers I know now... still box, its just far more painful for them. Also those same boxers will almost always replace boxes or mercs with real players when people are LFG. And many who want to box just to be able to do Solo tasks without asking for help (As even with a merc many classes still cant molo very well) but don't have 2 computers would like to spin up a second character to make their lives fun and easier, thus allowing them to enjoy the game and play more / longer. I am all for that.

I have no issue with people boxing legitimately on Selo. Truebox is not a perfect solution but it does drastically reduce the amount of automation being used since it blocks macaroni 2 use. Some people may be able to get around that but most can't and it drastically reduces the amount of automation on the server. I've played on live where you had to be able to out DPS an automated 6 box to be able to complete hunter achievements and I have no desire to see that on Selo.

Yep, Stormer is actually Jeff Bezos & he's going to pay for the ramping up of the development so that we get a new expansion every month /sarcasm.

Rulesets are changed all the time, the kind of changes that are asked for by the community itself & also what the Developer Team & their Management decide works best.

If something is actually not working out, it should be changed & Truebox has it's "useful era" and eventually, for most players, it does become a huge pain in the backside.

If you want to be a stickler sure, keep truebox even once the server hits live, I for one will never play on another damn Truebox server ever again if that happens & I'll happily deal with whatever "Magefire" scenario happens during early expansions on the next TLP I play on (if that happens) so I don't have to deal with it later on. I have learned my lesson. If Phinigel is kept truebox even once it hits live I will transfer off it 100% no ifs or buts. If my guild can't raid due to low numbers before Live then I will transfer off then. The only thing that is going to help older TLP stay viable is removing truebox in my opinion.

That said, I don't think it is unreasonable to adapt Truebox to only being on servers until DoDH unlocks, at some point before or around then on Live servers the client was altered so that you could then box from one PC where you couldn't before, that would be a much better following of the timeline of the game.

I don't even say this so much for my self either FWIW, I can three box in any case as I have the hardware for it, I want it for all my guild members who don't have the option right now, as it might help them to stick around.

I will also add that I genuinely, truly believe that if Miragul had not been a Truebox server it would have been a FAR bigger success than it was & would have a much bigger population right now.

Do you even read what you write & consider the bad logic it uses?

You're saying that you are fine with boxing, acknowledge that it doesn't stop the cheaters and still want Truebox to stay anyway to prevent anyone boxing without the use of additional hardware because of "reasons" what are you a PC/Laptop salesman looking to protect his bottom line?

All you do here is say you want players to spend more money & use more electricity than they need to in order to box just because. Not exactly an eco-friendly stance.

Now try reading my whole post instead of quoting a small part of it. I said truebox wasn't perfect but it does stop a lot of the cheating, its much better then not having it at all.

Why I'd be perfectly fine with a server wide poll on each one, requiring high level such as 90-100 on selo to vote.

I'm extremely confident the majority would like to see it gone.

I read your whole post.

It's like banning chewing gum because 1 guy spits it out in the street when 1500 don't

An awful analogy. You can make up random numbers to try to downplay the issue but there has been plenty of multi-page threads in the veterans lounge about the issues with automation. The reasons behind truebox don't magically disappear in later EQ.

I also don't understand the logic in trying to change things this late in the servers life. We are only a few months away from live and Selo has been a great experience, no reason to change it now.

And the vast majority of those complaints are regarding people who fully afk automate & that gets done even on truebox servers right now, so you want to keep the server inhospitable to boxing & negatively impact a whole bunch of players just to prevent a tiny handful of hypothetical additional cheaters, that's just seems petty to me.
There are large numbers of live server players using some form of 3rd party software who aren't being jerks & aren't AFK automating at all so your argument is pretty weak, there will always be a few bad actors.

What's hard to understand? That players who don't currently box but would like to can't unless they buy extra hardware? How exactly is that concept so difficult to grasp?

Maybe they don't want a bunch of computers on their desk so their partner doesn't think their nerdy passion got chronic, it's not that much of a stretch of the imagination that folks have significant others who would take a very dim view of "even more" tech crap in the living room etc.

In the very first announcement for the very first truebox server, they literally posted a picture of a guy with 18 computers boxing 18 characters.

If you think this is against the spirit of truebox, you are sorely mistaken.

The same restrictions that have been in place for the last 5 years, that were put in place for good reason. Restrictions that people agreed to when they started on the server.

/yawn

Assuming they release no new expansions Coirnav won't hit Live(tm) until March of 2023. Twenty Twenty THREE. There are 3 guilds left clearing content on Coirnav, there is zero chance this server lasts 3 more years without a change. Selo will likely be fine. Phinny as well. Both are scheduled to hit live in less than 6 months? This thread may have started with Selo in mind, but there have been others in the past, this one has just attracted enough attention from players on the mature servers to get the dialog going down at DPG. This change isn't being proposed for a single server, its being proposed as a template for all truebox TLPs. Phinny is the older brother who has paved the way for all the younger siblings, every TLP after it has progressively had it easier and better because of constructive feedback and open dialog between the devs and the community. Truebox has its time and it has a point that it should be removed.

Alright guys pack it up, this dude said that's the way it is and you signed up for it. Don't try to change anything, this guy says just leave everything as is because you signed up for it.

One of the most idiotic ideals there is lol.

Just add that to the other guy who stated democracy isn't a real thing and how voting majority doesn't matter.

Some people prefer rules over reason, some prefer authoritative even tyrannical adherence to said rules, history is full of them.
For him Progress is simply out of the question even on a server that has that word in the name, Time Locked Progression Server, clearly asking for progress on a progression server is not something he wants, that's okay.
Reasoned debate is not enough for him to change his perspective, he has his position & that's it, fair enough.
We tried to persuade him, he isn't buying it, but it's okay, he's entitled to hold his opinion & share it, all good.

But at the end of the day the decision isn't his, it isn't ours, it's up to the dev team & their managers & they will look at all of the arguments for & against, I think we've done a good job so far on our side of the discussion & I think we present a strong case. I'm not confident he's offered up a good enough objection to counter that, so let's not lose sight of the aim here.

Removing truebox isn't progress though, its literally the opposite. Fippy didn't have truebox but that didn't save its population in later expansions.

WTH is this logic?
If you want to take it that way, it is progress, because it was allowed back then when Sony removed 1 game limit per machine.

You stopped making sense a while back but this was on another level.