Phinigel Flagging issues EoK to live

With Prathun gone, is there any hope this gets done? EoK is soon.

@dreamweaver

What? I feel like I missed something ...

AFK gameplay can achieve many things

Prathun left DBG.

I’m in the 3 month unlock camp, but any fix will do. Love playing on Miragul and I’m SO STOKED to experience these expansions. EoK isn’t a lvl increase but it looks soooo deep. Give me more time man!

While it may not have a level increase the sheer amount of AA alone should warrant it.

would like it to be a month longer would help us big time not much time to farm

While we have indeed lost Prathun (along with Narlee & Froo) from EQ these types of decisions always involved the whole team anyway & most of them are still there.

Ngreth has been instrumental in TLP changes also so while I would absolutely credit the whole Dev team with making the TLP ruleset far better over the time Phinigel has been running after listening to constructive feedback from the TLP community here & elsewhere I think Ngreth deserves some recognition as one of the devs most involved on the TLP rules side of things. Prathun was key as far as digging into things that weren't working that should be on quests amongst many other things so he has definitely impacted TLP.

Many of the changes when they did happen were quite "last minute" or even a bit late but hopefully the dev team discussion bears fruit on this topic.
At least they have it on their radar right now & that's a big first step in the process.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/expansion-duration-past-tbm-phinnigel.265249/

I posted about this 3 months ago. Plenty of time to actually fix it for EoK release if they wanted to...

Given the quantity of content and raid progression in EOK, I'd really like to have a 3 month unlock schedule.

**IF** we decide to change the duration, it can be altered on any PATCH day before the switch to RoS. So it doesn't have to change before EoK launches, but before RoK.
I'm still going to talk to community, and bosses before a decision is made.

Thank you for the continued feedback. You don't need to stop because I responded.

Good to know you are discussing it. Even without the extending of EoK are you looking at the keying rates as well? Cuz I don't think extending it on Selo's is as popular as it is on Phinny.

Agreed, Selos is 1 month per expansion for all of them thus far, but they would still need the keys upped to x3

Yeah, please keep Selo in mind when discussing.

I vote against the change. For two reasons.

1. Nothing prevents people deciding to continue EoK content when RoK launches. Some guilds will likely not be finished with EoK launches regardless if the time is extended or not.
2. It sets a dangerous precedence. For the sake of Ngreth and the development teams' sanity. I suggest not to change it.
2.A. As far as I am aware not progressions server has a change in timeline or rulesets post launch. Why would someone join a server with their preferred rule set/timeline if it is believed that it will get changed in the future?
2.B. It opens up the avenue for some stupidly angry people to complain on the forums to get their way. I can see it now.

"You changed the timeline for a single expansion for that server, why aren't you listeningto us on the dying sever by removing true box (Miragual, Selo, Phini (maybe)).

"Why aren't you removing the vote requirement on Ragefire? We deservice automatic expansion releases just like every server release after ours! We weren't given an option to not vote when Ragefire/Lockjaw released"

"Hypothetically in a year or so" "Can you remove Truebox limit on Aradune? You released the new Quillmane server with Truebox with one character per person, 2000% experience bonus,no experience reduction in AoC, mercenaries unlock in classic, all classes unlocked in classic, 1 character requirement to request AoC, 12x loot, removal of all placeholders, FV trade ruleset, levels no longer linked to expansion releases, removal of level requirements on items, removal of damage and haste caps for melle, focus effects unlocked in classic and eggs on vendors starting in classic, and now our server is dying!"

First, yes they have changed them, when they decided to make GoD and all non level expansions 2 months and all level expansions 3 months several servers effected were already released (at the very least Phinny was as I recall it while I was playing there.)

Second TLP's are evolving things, being set in stone about "This is the rulez!" is a silly mindset. What worked extremely well for many TLP's before Phinny was not being truebox and not having AoC's, the community came out and said "Hey can we change this for the next TLP?" and when they did Phinny was born and was by FAR the most successful TLP so far.

Being adaptive and willing to both listen to logic and the community while also being able to reign in the extremes is 100% the job of the game developers. They walk a fine line I agree between giving to much to the whiners while also giving enough to make the quality of life playing these games better and reasonable (I think 99% of the community can agree taking away the corpse run with no gear was a pretty darn good change for instance).

They have to work in those QoL changes for live and for TLP's, both are not static things that dont evolve and change and since no TLP before was like what Phinigel, Selo, Miragul, Ragefire and any other that is the "first of its kind" has been done before you cannot know for certain what will change and be different YEARS down the road and so you have to be willing to adapt and change when change is needed. Again that does NOT mean you have to go to the extreme other side and have 2000% EXP, 100% named spawn rates and all the other BS, it just means you have to be willing to make small changes when the good from them is assessed to be greater than the bad from them.

1. Look up the term "in era"
2. Devs don't require us to save their sanity, they need quality feedback, not platitudes.
2.A. Yes they have, several times.
2.B I reject this point completely, Phinigel & the other TLP communities have discussed rational & well-reasoned arguments in this thread & prior ones that led to constructive & beneficial changes & have taken time to give genuine feedback, you throwing that out the window as angry stupid people complaining is weak & ridiculously dismissive of your peers & you should definitely reconsider how you regard other players & the way that you speak about them. You are not the only intelligent person in the discussion here, which is how you come across on this point.

I am happy to discuss reasoned dissent but the rest of your post was just a bunch of "slippery slope" arguments & "whataboutism".

You'd have been better just saying "I don't like this idea"

Not only have they indeed made changes post launch, it would be disingenuous to suggest that there are only players on these servers that want the rule sets to remain the same.

Granted that then, it is important to remember that many of us join these servers despite the rule set - for a variety of reasons. Those players too should have their concerns addressed - otherwise, absolutely nothing should ever be changed on these servers period. Charm should be unnerfed. Out-of-era spells and abilities that were previously available on every iteration of these TLP severs should be restored. The post-revamp key rates for later expansions should be reduced to what they were.

It cannot be both ways - you cannot argue for a situation where some changes can be embraced and made while others can be dismissed automatically out of hand simply because "that's not how it was when this server started." That isn't to say changes cannot - and should not - be debated on their own inherit merits. But never dismissed out of hand.

When these TLP rule-sets were made, there was 0 thought into what that looked like for later expansions in Everquest. There have been MANY quality of life changes that have happened as a result of the community presenting information to the devs. I've yet to see anyone complain (that actually played on the servers affected) as a result of those changes.

People are always going to complain about something, have you read the TLP section lately? You can't decide to make no changes just because people are going to whine about it. News flash - they are going to whine either way.

I'm not going to repeat everyone that has already bashed your terrible argument to pieces, but I will add this:

Ngreth and others on the dev team value rational and well-thought out feedback. That is why this discussion is happening. We are not going out of our way to create more work for them, we are going out of our way to smooth the way for future TLP's and salvage existing ones. The dev's are fully aware that every issue can't be foreseen when a server goes live. Phinny has been going strong for almost 5(?) years now. If you think that happened magically on its own without a strong dialogue back and forth between the community and its dev team, I don't know what to tell you.

I for one am appreciative of the efforts everyone has put in on both sides of the table, and I am glad that we get a chance to have a say, even if it isn't always acted on.