What do you prefer: Grinding or the new Meta of Completion?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Xerzist, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't it be both?

    Just get rid of the hell level mechanic so grinding is a viable path, but leave the xp rewards that come from doing progression (like we had in ToV) and let people decide how they want to level. What is so wrong with that?
    Pelrond, BadPallyGuildLeader and Skuz like this.
  2. Marton Augur

    This.

    Some folks like quests, some like grinding. Let people decide how they want to play the game.
  3. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    We are halfway to the next expansion, and you're max level. Seems perfectly reasonable.

    Why do you want to blow through content? I thought you were the measured, 'stop and smell the roses' sort. Not the 'let's get to max level and complete the expansion and all the achievements in as little time as possible' sort.

    Your position is predicated on it, so I have to ask: What is a "reasonable" amount of time to grind levels?
    svann likes this.
  4. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    EverQuest : It's In The Name
  5. bortage spammin lifetaps

    I feel like killing a rare should give a big chunk of XP going forward
    Tucoh likes this.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    The way that you say that as a response sounds like you think that should be the only viable path, why is that?
    Nobody has suggested taking away anything from the progression system, they just feel it is better to still be able to progress in a reasonable amount of time from the way that you hate but you can choose to avoid that, nobody is making you do it so why should you care if it exists if you can ignore it completely?

    I do the progression in era myself & enjoy it, but when I want to catch up an alt I don't necessarily want to repeat it.

    Players who are not currently playing but return to the game with the ToV paradigm in place are going to have a way tougher time catching up than ever before, what is the devs strategy for returners to the live game who are caught in ToV's XP desert later on when the live game is several expansions past it & getting a group is far less likely to be possible?

    This lack or foresight is a repeated pattern of behaviour of every EverQuest dev team that has ever existed & it gets better for a while as focus moves back to making the way players catch up easier then gradually erodes again, this change is different though and is far more insidious & damaging long term.
    winspearean likes this.
  7. Velisaris_MS Augur

    My big concern is the next expansion. The devs have already hinted that this type of advancement (tying the bulk of xp to the progression) will be used going forward, and the next expansion (if the pattern holds) will be a non-level increase expansion.

    Exactly how is the xp going to work?

    If they tie the bulk of xp to the progression tasks and are one-time only (like ToV), people at max level will just waste it by doing progression. Or are they just not going to put xp on the progression tasks? If that's the case, are they going to up the xp per mob kill in the new expansion to help people get though the 111-115 hell levels? I can't image they would put the "save your xp in a rune" type of mechanic like they used in CoTF on a task that rewards such a huge chunk of xp, so that option is probably out. This is another example from Daybreak of the "worry about today, don't think about tomorrow" mentality.

    Making every level in a new expansion a hell level was a horrible idea and should be done away with before the next level increase expansion.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. svann Augur

    Ironic that the expac that removed all raid progression practically requires group progression.
    Skuz likes this.
  9. Cicelee Augur

    In order for me to get the checkmarks I want, I have to do a considerable amount of grinding in this game.

    Last night my mage and my bard box spent three hours on TOFS floor 7 I think, the circle room with the three bats looking to spawn the two named there. Three hours, not one named. That is grinding. And I hated it.

    However I realize in order for me to get that checkmark, especially since I missed out on some guild and server hunter raids, it might involve some random grinding. Which I hate, but i accept.

    The OP question was asking what you prefer. I prefer doing quests and tasks and accomplishments. I hate sitting for 3 hours killing three bats and six vampires every ten minutes (or however long it took my duo to kill those nine)...
    Skuz likes this.
  10. Tucoh Augur

    I am.

    If I had my way (posted prior), Cicelee would only need to do hunter in the next expansion multiple times to their boxes checked and the substantial rewards that go along with it. This would involve dumb camps like killing three spawns to get that "a shrouded bat".

    This would be just revenge for making me do dumb quests like Crystal Cavern's Spider Harness every expansion, which Cicelee enjoys so I blame them 100% for those quests existing.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. winspearean New Member

    Several people in my guild benefitted greatly from the massive corpse dump bug that happened and rezzed their way through these levels. I wasn’t so lucky as that was around the time I returned to the game. I have to wonder if DBG decided to allow the bug to work the way it did to compensate for how slow levelling turned out to be in ToV rather than just fix things properly.

    In all honesty, I think DBG will probably fix it some day, probably before the next level increase, but not any time soon.
  12. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Exp curve and AA curves are different, I think they have the AA curve where they want it. Which means that we get 1 AA per kill but not so much Exp per kill, so I don't expect a change to kill exp anytime soon, at least not without overhauling 1 or both systems.

    While they say they want to continue with the same reward system for expansions to come, this doesn't really work well for non level increase expansions. IF they continue with the large chunks of exp from achievments they are going to have to offer an alternative of AA or something else, more than ever players are max level.

    Beta will have some interesting discussions again this year.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    I really hope DPG realizes that in ToV:

    1. It's trivial for powerful players to hit 115 in a couple days by just running through progression, but then there's nothing to do because there's no hard group or raid content, so all the extra stuff to build their characters is a waste of time. Which is why I only subbed for a month.

    2. It's hard for less powerful players to hit 115 because they can't do progression easily and grind it out instead.

    In ToV they've invented a leveling system where the poor are burdened and the rich yawn and play a different game.
    Skuz, winspearean and Duder like this.
  14. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Well, it's not about the amount of xp we gain per kill (regular or AA). There's nothing wrong with it in ToV. The fact that we're getting 1 AA (or thereabouts) per kill shows that nothing is wrong with the xp per kill. I'm sure sub-111 toons would grind just fine in ToV zones.

    It's the hell level mechanic, where the "length" of levels are artificially inflated. That is what basically made the traditional grinding tactic essentially futile for a lot of casual players in this expansion.

    That is what needs to be done away with and never come back into this game.
    Skuz likes this.
  15. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    just a thought... but if you start the earring quest at 111, where do you end up (XP wise) when you finish the last tier? the first couple of tiers are relatively quick to evolve, but the last takes like 30-40 mobs per percent iirc to level... I feel like that process alone would get you to 113+, add in the missions and you're near 115 (even without all the achievements). and when you consider overseer, which is a viable way to gain exp (5-10% *a day*) even if you can't find a group... well you shoudn't need it but it's there if you do.

    is that method fast? oh certainly not, especially if you're doing it with a group all starting at 111. It does provide a viable pathway to 115 that's not "do every quest" and does not require a single piece of raid gear. It also gives you several ways to measure character progress by:
    - your main xp bar and your alt experience obviously, but also
    - access to new crafted aug recipes (both type 7/8 and type 18/19),
    - access to otherwise locked/secured areas (TOFS keys are a required element),
    - an evolving item that ends up best in slot,
    - and then there's the ultrarare / named loot that drops during the grind.

    i dunno, i think they struck a pretty good balance between grind and quest xp in this expansion. at a glance it looks like crap but if you take a deeper look they've given a plethora of routes to improve your character such that NOBODY can legitimately say they're "stuck".
  16. Rasper Helpdesk The Original Helpdesk

    I enjoy quests, normally, unless it is:
    Get quest
    Run across zone, through random see invis, to update a step
    Run back to quest giver
    Run back across zone, through random see invis, to update next step
    Back to quest giver...

    That gets old REAL fast.
    Tatanka and Skuz like this.
  17. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Those powerful players were going to hit 115 regardless of what they did with the content. When you have players that log in for 39 hours straight they are going to get things done super quick.

    EW was easy for group players to do Mecenary quests and 2 of the 3 partisan, the 3rd is a bit buggy. GD was pretty easy apart from 1 annoying merc quest that had buggy spawns and is now in a rather awkward area. :rolleyes: Group players should have easily have been able to do those quests and leveled a bit and got some new gear even if they were just in Conflagrant visables and GMM nonvisables. The missions weren't that hard either for those 2 zones.

    After that you have Ry'Gor Mines and Crystal Caverns, neither of those 2 zones were that hard to get mercenary quests done. Crystal Caverns Partisan was annoying but it was still doable without too much effort or gear needed.

    ToFS, Kael & Velks uped the game a bit and were a bit harder, splitting mobs in the pit was a bit of a pita in Velks without a proper puller or CC. Pathing in ToFS as with the original was a nightmare and the mix of undead and live mobs can be problematic. Kael giants hit hard! Velks mission if done properly and not brute forced with DPS is still doable with lesser chars, and Kael needs players to control their DPS which is better suited to those who aren't power houses.

    Final thought, I enjoyed ToV more than I thought I would. :):D:cool:
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Huh? Getting all progression done in a few weeks and ending up close to max level isn't blowing through content? Until you address that you have no room to talk as far as I am concerned. You could double the grind exp for levels and it still would not compare to how progression could let you blow through levels.

    It has been many many years since grinding levels was as slow as it was with ToV. There was no need to change it. My argument is simply. The old model was what kept me playing for all these years so removing that option or making it a much worse grind made no sense at all.
  19. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    You stated the grind is too long, "unreasonable". I purport it's fine. We are also level 115. Higher levels take longer to grind. It's sensible. It's reasonable.

    If anything, the mission rewards are too good.
  20. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    No. The highest levels from this expansion shouldn't take any longer then the highest levels took to get from the last level increase expansion during that expansion. So not sure what you are saying here.
    Skuz and BadPallyGuildLeader like this.