Mythbusters TLP Rogue DPS Edition

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by WaitingforMoreEQ, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Since i'm sick of hearing about how much "better" Monk DPS is on TLPs. I'll use my FV toons /testcopy and do some Autistic scientific parses. I'll do both toons in equivalent gear despite the fact in the current 5 Monks for every 1 Rogue meta the Rogues are always much better geared.

    Test 1
    Both Toons are in Velious BIS equivalent gear with Full Velious Raid buffs and songs. Monk has an extra 15 attack Aug in his gear because he is using SON buff instead of Epic click.

    Monk Gharn, FoN, Boots of the Destroyer, 41% haste
    Rogue Mry Dagger, MHT, 41% haste

    Vs a 63 Test dummy to simulation NoTV raid trash
    /GU Test Sixty Three in 3092s, 1280k @414 | Rogue 681k | Monk 599k

    Test 2
    Will be same Setup as one but versus a 65 MoTM Velious dummy instead of a 63 non-motm. It will be posted sometime tomorrow.

    Test 3&4 will be similar to 1&2 but with be done with burst discs

    Later if i get a chance i'll do some at 65 with some PoP gear.
    Maneuvre and bbqpulledpork like this.
  2. Machen New Member


    Your methodology is seriously flawed from the very start.
    Tucoh and ThxAlot like this.
  3. Mercanyin Augur

    MHm, Science.
  4. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Why? I /reset AA and did all the things
  5. Mercanyin Augur

    Maybe he plays a monk?
    WaitingforMoreEQ likes this.
  6. Machen New Member


    Because you are testing a non-tlp character on a non-TLP server to "validate" a specifically TLP issue.
  7. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    I'm using FV toons so i can get the proper equipment the easiest possible way. All the tests need to run on the test server. Nothing flawed about it, these toons aren't running around in defiant gear with heroic stats. These toons function identical to if they were TLP toons in the same gear.
  8. Machen New Member


    There are more differences between test and TLP environment than most any of us can fully calculate. Test server pc's do NOT function identically to TLP toons with the same gear, even relatively speaking. There are differences in inherent aa's, differences because of motm/potm, differences in the accuracy code, differences in the monk damage tables (which you completely ignore since your monk isn't epic'd) differences in the available buffs (your OP references an attack augment which doesn't even exist in Velious that you are using, based on pure conjecture, to compensate for the lack of monk epic, but it isn't even remotely equal...)

    The test dummies have different ac and mitigation than actual velious era raid mobs.

    If you want to do this, and be taken seriously, you need to do it with actual TLP characters in actual TLP environments. Go kill actual ntov trash with an actual TLP monk and rogue during velious, and maybe you'll have something to offer.
  9. Tierdal Augur

    N
    Uh, TLP toons are the exact same as naked live toons.

    Why do you think everything is so easy now? Why a caster can tank 6 hits from an Azzarack or Hole Golem and be an A-OK?

    All the changes they have made to toons/AC calculations etc... are server wide.
    WaitingforMoreEQ and Yinla like this.
  10. Machen New Member


    Most, but not all. There is still a ton of TLP specific stuff.

    You only have to look at monk damage tables on TLP vs live to see this. Monks are stuck at 38 delay on early era TLP's (39 for Iksar at Kunark), not so on live. The epic changes the delay, but the OP avoided getting the epic. The OP is comparing a monk and a rogue. His comparison is flawed immediately right there.
  11. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    The 15 atk has nothing to do with "conjecture"(do you even know what this word means) SON and Epic click don't stack. SON gives 25atk Epic click gives 40 atk. 15 Attack from an aug is the same as 15 attack from a buff.

    Everything you said other then my /testcopy monk having epic is wrong. But Epic isn't BIS so what does it matter for a parse with BIS gear? I can just sub in a 15atk aug to make up for the difference in

    This is true. But each different mob in Velious has different AC. AoW doesn't have the same AC as Vulak ect. I don't see how using a test dummy is any different then using a different dragon/giant.
  12. Machen New Member


    The atk difference is fine, but you haven't accounted for the delay change for epic vs no epic on the monk.
  13. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Gonna go ahead an add you to the ignore list after responding since you wanna spam the thread with nonsense.

    The delay change is for bare first only. The parse is using Vulak/Tunare weapons, epic delay change is irrelevant. I would need to do the Epic if i wanted to parse the difference in Kunark era DPS. But we both already know/agree that monks are doing better DPS in that era, i feel no need to science something that i agree with. I'm more interested in debunking the nonsense that Monks are better sustained DPS than Rogues in SoV, SoL, PoP and GoD
  14. Blastoff Augur

    Rogues are great dps once they get some decent weapons Kunark+...on Coirnav the only non wizard that could contest Vulak parses during Velious was our best geared rogue.
  15. HoodenShuklak Augur

    I've grouped with some of the better if not best rogues that play some tlps and I agree that a good rogue has competitive dps.

    Whenever I've seen these rogue need help threads though I always end up saying rogues should be hands down better dps than monks. The main rationale being that outside of a 1 (I think) pickpocket raid their utility is near nothing. Pick lock is good but bards do it too of course. Neither of these offset a monks huge utility from their tanking, to pulling, mend, to not needing weapons in early eq (i.e. when everyone complains).

    But yeah, rogues are solid dps in raids or groups. Its risky in the earliest eq stages when gear can be so bad... but your rogue will simply not match the utility and, to a lesser extent, independence of a monk.
    NinjutsuMMO and Dexxeaa00 like this.
  16. Xeris Augur

    Why does this matter if the monk isn't using fists? Vulak weps are better than fists...
  17. Koniku Elder

    yeah but i actually want coin split on raids, monk swarm > rogue swarm
  18. Eilad Lorekeeper

    my 2cp regarding this thread, from someone that played rogue during velious to PoP era on phinigel.

    i think the actual rogue dps would be lower because of mob turning on you. BS damage isnt the major part of the dps but is still significant. i found that many encounters you couldnt reliably BS.
    Either due to KBs, vulak turning every time he summon, etc etc etc.

    Also the MoTM buff do change the overall dps due to the damage bonus not being mitigated i think?

    Cheers
  19. Xanathol Augur

    Why are you starting at Velious? Classic is the worst or so it is said.
  20. Tucoh Augur

    "I'm sick of hearing X"

    "So I decided to prove Y is wrong"

    "I chose to do this by testing Z"

    How about you roll a rogue on Aradune, get in a group with a similarly geared monk and post some parses of the results?
    Barton likes this.