Can Darkpaw pleeeaasse for the love of Pete fix rogues?

Actually, the same did happen for poisons. They were just still useless after the poison revamp.

1. Level 75 is HOW many years away from the new server Aradune? My point is buffs to other classes, like necro dots and monk dps tables on live now also apply to TLPs... but you're saying rogues need to stay content with literal inferiority for another what, 2-3 years? So what, they can catch up "a bit" to monk DPS, while never coming to any utility at all. But that's OKAY because YOU could top a few parses on a few single boss targets. Well, the stats for top parsing DPS meelee on live isn't rogues is it... it's berserkers. Ask yourself... does it make sense, in game design... to have what in classic was designated to be TOP meelee DPS... actually being lowest, and when it finally catches up to monk,,, have nowhere near the utility of monk class. Certainly no rogue was an offtank ever. And rogue pullers... what a joke. Leave pulling to bards and monks or SKs.

2. Rogues are USELESS in classic and with raid gear and weapons barely become VIABLE... but really never competitive because having a parse that equals a monk doesn't make you equal to all the things a monk can do.
3. Why does a replacement melee DPS class even exist in game? Berserkers by the time they advance to live become #1 DPS and don't have the situational back-positioning requirement for Backstab DPS that rogues do... consequently, they top parses overall with monks and are the two premiere classes for melee dps that raiding guilds look for. My whole point, because of the LIMITATIONS imposed on the Rogue class and near ZERO utility, they should make up for that in pure DPS boost, and should EASILY be top DPS on parses consistently through all the expacs... but it's not the case... and many times, they are completely overshadowed by classes with vastly superior utility. I mean assassinate is GREAT.... it's also limited to humanoid targets and back-positioning. SK HT, Necro Lifeburn, Wizard/Mage nukes don't have those limitations... and can easily equal your claim to excellent DPS at the same level, in the same gear.

What exactly is your point? Rogues are fine don't fix them?... because with raid gear they "might" equal a monk/berserker on "some" Mob Boss parses? I don't even know monks who think that... and here you are, saying you play a rogue.

Excuse me, these big threads are really hard to get thru, may I suggest rough drafting your post in an attempt to get your message across with less words. Alternatively, you could add a tl;Dr.

But what do I know, I'm just Darryl.

Did you include yourself in that group that don't know anything about rogues? especially since you posted that never have played one.

The only thing Rogues need in Classic is groups leveling and help from a guild to get good daggers and their Epic in Kunark, pretty much the same as most of the classes that cannot solo well.

In Kunark+ they are hitting the raid dps parses consistently with decent daggers and gear.

They'll never fix Rogues. People will just tell you to play a monk if you want to be good melee dps with other uses.

Why would you ever pick a Rogue over a Monk, Zerker, or even a Ranger?

What useful utility can you even give Rogues at this point? Corpse runs are never coming back. Locked doors are irrelevant as you said, they only apply to classic and Kunark, and Bards can open any door a Rogue can. An upgrade in poisons would be nice, but I'm not sure how that adds much utility.

There needs to be a reason to invite a Rogue to groups or raids. Currently there is no reason, you're better off inviting a monk.

Rebelicious- Everything you say about rogues are pretty much correct, but you knew that before you rolled the character right? I mean you did a little research before starting your rogue right? Why are you so upset then?

I play characters that I think I will enjoy their play style and evaluate for the first 10 to 20 lvls and if I don't like them, for whatever reason, I will roll up a different character and try that until I find one I like. It really has nothing to do with DPS or prestige for me, I just want a toon I like playing and fits my style of game play. I don't parse DPS and don't even care to. I just like to play and have a good time with others.

Try a new character type and move on. Your rogue will still be there if they ever fix your grievances so you won't lose anything, but you may find EQ more enjoyable with your new toon. You can even keep nagging about rogues on the forum if you like, but at least figure out a way to enjoy the game in the meantime.

BTW, I played with a rogue in a group in UR last night and he was great... a definite benefit to the group, and a good guy to group with too. Being a good group mate is more valuable to me than DPS really. We killed everything thrown at us and had a great time together, what more could you want.

If your attitude is the same in game as here, I really wouldn't want you in a group with me.

Highlight your character before you log in.

Click - DELETE
Type in - DELETE

Issue solved.

That's a good question. At this point, it would have to largely focus on the poison tradeskill and/or pre-combat attacks. I think so much creativity could be unleashed in poison making...but then again, just about every tradeskill in EQ kinda blows...until you can make the rocketeer boots.

They could also be the only class to benefit from highly powered out-of-combat attacks like they get later on. One's where you have to be out of combat in order to use - so they're basically a one-use-per-fight. Maybe a high-strength dagger throw that has a short refresh and a long-refresh high-strength backstab.

Some utility that rogues could get that may help a bit is a see invis skill and indoor tracking. Or at least it would help me camp Cloak of Shadows...

I have a max lvl wiz, cleric, necro, SK, war on other servers. I have a Pally on Aradune as well. The reason I'm speaking up is, if no one speaks out, nothing will be done. So, why not speak up? A lot of changes have been made... why just make a diff class and move on? If I'm playing a rogue now, it's my interest and business, to advocate for improvement of the class.
You write:

Judgmental much? I'm advocating for improvements to a desperately overlooked class... and you blame my attitude. FYI Im max lvl now, have lots of groups and help people on either rogue or pally. It doesn't erase the extraordinary pain I went through trying to lvl him on a TLP when every single other class was inv to groups and oftentimes I went LFG for hours... no one talked to me, doubt my "attitude" was the cause. But go ahead and attack my character as a person, if it makes you feel better about the woefully neglected state of the class, exp in Classic.

Groups can fill their DPS need in so many ways other than rogue... and a rogue is not a central part of any required makeup of the group. And it's doubly hard if you're new and don't have a clique of friends to help you get leveled and are at the mercy, of oftentimes... merciless PUGs.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease... sometimes. But the silent broken wheel is never noticed. I mean... did it hurt you to read rogues need a bit of a fix?

its a 21 year old game - the last crusaders that were on here nerfed charm pets for everyone...

The last ones before that killed mage pets...

please stop - this wont turn out the way you think it will

This is exactly correct.

wrong, unless your characters name is DELETE


Anywho,

Rogues definitely need some love in classic and beyond. You don't have to say "you just need raid gear" or "in kunark you get better" "wait for your epic" or any other excuse for ANY OTHER CLASS. That alone should tell you something...

Please fix rogues

In raids on live atm, rogues are the 2nd best melee DPS class atm,maybe a tie with monks, but certainly not behind monks. They remain behind zerkers, but rog can hit the top 10 (including melee and caster DPS classes) without problem. The gap is also small between zerkers, rogues and monks. Of course comparing players of the same skill level.
That means that when a guild looks for melee DPS, what will matter is the skill you have in playing your class.
The game cannot be balanced at the favorite expansion of each TLP rogue player.

You mean with servers so overpacked theres a que?

We need to lose nerds somehow, and enchanters are the greediest players on the box

If they did something basic, say like not putting backstab on cooldown if you fire it without proper positioning, thus allowing you to click it again as soon as you get the mob's back, would that affect Live in any meaningful way?

This would only be a buff for the bad rogues. The good rogues in good guilds that don't swap the mob's front every other second would get almost no benefit.

You should correct your ignorance before posting. Monk live dps tables haven't applied to the TLP's in the last four or five years now.