Why the Necro nerf???

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Master Kahleem, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Clawzzx New Member

    I can see how this is a massive nerf for earlier xpacs. However for those of us further along the tlp road, this is a massive boost. Det extension, magic focus, and dot crits boost healing received massively.
  2. Zansobar Augur

    How does that make it better to use than just the life tap dd? Can't all those things apply to the life tap dd too?
    Master Kahleem likes this.
  3. Master Kahleem Augur

    It doesn't, now the life tap DD is far more mana efficient to use than any heal-over-time dot.

    Anyone not calling this a massive nerf don't play necromancer, or play necromancer VERY poorly and do not have a fundamental grasp of necro mechanics.
  4. auto21 Elder

    every necro I grp'd with just expected the healer to heal their lich anyway.... lazy
  5. BaraMangler New Member

    What spells/era are you comparing?

    Since I'm on Mangler:
    Touch of Mujaki: 875 lifetap for 450 mana
    Saryrn's Kiss: 200/tick lifetap dot for 550 mana. 60s base duration = 10 ticks (11 actual).

    875/450 < 2 life/mana
    200*10 (we'll go with the lowest possible situation even if we actually get 11, and 12+ if dot extension focused) = 2000 life/550 mana, just under 4 life/mana.

    In a single target situation, if this dot lasts half duration it is more efficient than the lifetap. If not, well then you'd not be using long duration dots in the first place.

    In a multi target situation, the lifetap dot wins hands down any day of the week.

    Educate me on how this is a massive nerf and I fail to grasp the fundamentals of necromancer gameplay. Please don't bring up focus effects, they'll actually favor the dot even further at Mangler+ levels of progression due to typically higher dot damage focus than DD, as well as detrimental extension focus effects available starting in Luclin with the Crown of Ambivalence. Better detrimental dot mana pres focus from Vallon Zek earring in PoTime as well.

    As far as I can tell, the "favored status of lifetaps" in this change would only apply in the scenario of quickly killing mobs (live less than 30s of dot application time). In those scenarios, self healing is hardly a matter of life or death simply due to the ease of the encounters. In any multitarget encounter, this is a massive self healing buff...which typically isn't going to be a big deal anyways. Lifetaps dots are inefficient when compared to our standard damage dots.

    And Demilich skullcap continues to work as a recourse effect, should this be a crutch you find yourself relying upon.
  6. feigntrain Elder

    You're in some awful groups if it takes you that long to kill mobs.

    I also don't see you factoring in crits on lifetap DDs.

    You're also not considering that now the lifetap dot has to be your 1st spell cast in order to get the most out of it, so you're decreasing your own dps and contribuing less to the group.

    It is a nerf, straight up. To deny that is to deny reality.
  7. Xanathol Augur

    You can use both...
  8. BaraMangler New Member

    Group kill speed is very much going to depend on content. PoFire C2 vs LDON Normals or Paw or whatever are going to greatly change the factors. As far as factoring crits, don't need to. Use lifetaps on short duration fights. Period. Fury of Magic/Destructive Fury/Theft of Life make it even more attractive on short fights, especially where healing is a concern...however often that happens. Since I'm on Mangler, Gates in 2 weeks will obviously reduce the lead on DD crits a bit with Critical Affliction...which also boosts multi-target fight advantage even more.

    The argument was efficiency of lifetap DD vs Dot. Well, that's going to be very dependent on the situation. Which is how I framed my point.

    Its both. My argument is who gives a damn in group content? It doesn't matter. If mobs are dying fast (sub 30s), a necro is probably using lifetap/poison nuke/fire nuke depending on era. If lack of recourse is a concern, click your skullcap. Morternum still has a recourse. Yeah, the cast time sucks. So does the cast time on lifetap dots.

    Multi target situations, this is could be a healing nerf up to a massive buff IF you're wanting the additional self healing. If not, you're using the dot for it simply being an additional damage source and you also don't care about its healing as its primary use.
  9. Megazen Elder

    There is a very small percentage situation where this will be at best even with what it was, and that is if you are soloing, and the dot is going for most of it's duration every time. The entire point of any of the recourse spells, was because they always ran the full length, and they also ended up still ticking when you were in fast regen mode. If you stop getting the efficiency of them running their full course for sure, they are beyond pointless really. The entire juggle of health vs mana vs efficiency just got a dump taken on it.

    /shrug, even more reasons that lizard is the only race someone should ever use for necro. That regen is more important than ever now.
  10. Clawzzx New Member

    Mostly just depends what era you are. I can receive the entire healing of the old recourse in a single tick now.
  11. Tierdal Augur

    because your dots are broken now
  12. Clawzzx New Member

    The old recourse was also 1% of my hp a tick, and the new leech dot costs 4.5ish% of my mana to cast (9% before pres). Seems like it’s much better balanced now and will actually get used outside of highly resistant mobs.
  13. OliverQ Elder

    It's a long cast time and aside from a couple raid mobs like Inny where it might last long enough to bother, it's completely worthless. The main benefit of BoD was to offset Lich or other damage in fast kill groups or soloing. It's worthless except in a couple niche raid encounters now.
  14. RandomStrategy Augur

    Okay, never played a necro, did they consolidate all the dot lines so you aren't cycling through three spell bar rotations just to make the middle of a parse?
  15. Machen New Member


    Way to completely ignore every expansion besides classic.
  16. Zansobar Augur

    Not yet. In the last patch they changed how a lifetap dot works.
  17. Machen New Member


    They actually did consolidate the dot lines, you just have to play til the 75+ level expansions to get there.
  18. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    It's worse in Kunark and Velious and SoL and PoP. Then Necros are awful in PoP and the next what 5+ expacs after that....
  19. Idget Lorekeeper

    They did this on items also not only necro dots..
  20. Zansobar Augur

    Which is not something very many people on TLPs will ever do and this is a TLP forum. I care about the Classic to PoP game like most of the TLP customers.