ToV Review Change My Mind

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Pawtato, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I'm not that bothered about difficulty, I want group and raid content that is fun.

    Grinding in TOV zones just to evolve an earring is not fun, especially when you have completed all the other content and have no need of anything. :rolleyes: Biggest challenge I saw in TOV was the pathing in TOFS and Velks basement.

    Funwise
    TOFS1 raid was not fun, it was annoying, love TOFS2 & 3, wedding/divorce is my fav this expansion
    Kael 2 is borning until you get past the bend the knee bit, first raid is ok
    Velks is fun, lots going on, difficulty wise it feels like this should have been the last raid of the expansion
    GD I enjoy, but then I enjoyed the origninal ring war, love killing giants! When can we kill King Tormax?
    EW is ok, dislike the change to the pathing on the first raid.

    I do not want to see any group zones aimed at raiders, groupers dont see all the game as it is, they should not be locked out of any group zones while we have so few.

    Next expansion I'd like to see more instance content, I'm sick of bot groups moving in next to where we are killing, I'm sick of bot groups interferinig with our kills, we don't need them to help us kill our named we can do it quite sufficently without them. And give us some greenery far too much white this expansion.
  2. Pawtato Augur

    Is the purpose of beta to make sales or solicit enough feedback to make something that generates sales. Stop pre-ordering. Stop beta testing.
  3. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    the purpose of beta testing is to have a limited population test the product before it's general release for bugs / issues... most development decisions are already made... in other words, the purpose of beta testing is not to *make* anything.

    By its very nature software beta testing normally doesn't have the full target population involved, otherwise it's just a product release under another name as an excuse for things not working. The way DPG has currently limits the population is by requiring the expansion be purchased early OR that individuals/guilds be specifically invited to participate, which is a perfectly valid method. when the game had a much larger userbase, the beta was via lottery / invite only... but it's always been a limited population.
  4. Pawtato Augur


    Agreed, this is why I posted in response to more people should participate in Beta. It's not going to make a difference in design of the expansion, because that's already been set.

    I do disagree with you on requiring a purchase before beta testing. I can't support that model.
  5. Zvenn Just an old monk


    quite a few guilds i have been in the Devs have given them an ample amount of beta tokens to get people into beta and play...this does not require us to pre order (which i do anyways as i want to support the game i have enjoyed playing for 21 years) but for those who do not want to pre order, they can use the beta token and participate in beta. i guess the point to that is beta is not locked behind some paywall, im sorry if your guild isnt getting said tokens to participate or if they are and just not sharing, but there are quite a few people in beta via the beta tokens who havent spent a penny on pre orders
  6. Pawtato Augur

    That’s cool, I’m happy they can get some people in that have experience. Still doesn’t defend the idea that casual players should waste time in beta.
  7. Zvenn Just an old monk


    i mean it kind of does...if you want to express feelings, concerns, bugs, issues, etc to devs in beta to have them add it to their todo fix list (not everything makes it but they do take note and change quite a bit of things). they do beta upgrades and releases almost on a weekly basis so gives you plenty of time to see things as they change and present your feedback. if we had more casual people playing in beta testing the casual group game it could be better tuned towards those players. just like they do for raids with raiders. as it has been its pretty much raiders testing the group game and thats obviously a completely different experience based on skill, gear, etc.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

    Well call me old fashioned .. but I for one do not think ANY group missions ever should be doable in 30 seconds .. start to complete (/open chest) ..

    ToV has what .. two of them ?
  9. Pawtato Augur

    Agreed, but more than 20 seconds of Griklor ruins my EQ motivation. It’s so awful going through that raid. I’m not a fan of the design, I like more of a dungeon type progression from WoW.
  10. Whulfgar Augur

    Personal preference is one thing.

    In game actual grp missions taking 30 seconds (at most) is entirely another thing ..
  11. Cicelee Augur

    I would love to have one end expansion zone that fully challenges me and my talents, bringing out the best in what I can do and have the sense of satisfaction of accomplishment.

    However, I am also in the higher end as far as level, AA, spells, gear, augments, etc. And there might be someone who also wants to experience everything in the first sentence of my post... but does not have the current expansion raid gear and rank 3 spells and such that I have. And because of that, what is a 50/50 challenge for me is a 100% death and failure for them.

    And there lies the crux of the issue. What is challenging for one may not be for the other. And the group game should always be designed for inclusion for all (assuming certain group character standards are met). For the devs to release a "group" zone where the requirements are max AA, max rk3 spells and max raid TS gear would bring such an epic thread to these boards and cause such anger and disappointment with the game that you could see a mass exodus of casual players leave.

    If a raider really wants to challenge themself in TOV, they have to do so with self created limitations.Wear EOK group armor and use COTF spells. Don't use a single disc. Things like that could create the "challengs" you seek.
    Yinla and Nadisia like this.
  12. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    while the design might not change, there are many examples where influence has been exerted during beta to change specific elements of an encounter. example: during an event there many be too many adds to handle or they might be turned up too high... no you're probably not going to change that there's adds in that specific phase, the event design has already been set by the time it hits beta... but the details can be changed and frequently are. AoE's turned up/down, etc....

    More over though, the devs put in a ton of work to try and eliminate the bugs in implementing the scripts during beta, and without beta testers / feedback to identify bugs en masse they wouldn't get to fixing nearly as many as they do. the more beta testers, the more bug reports, the more things fixed before it goes live and impacts your actual toon.

    but in any case, beta test or don't, it's up to you... my original point was that people who WANT to beta test typically don't have a problem with pre-ordering, because they were never NOT going to buy it in the first place.
  13. Deux Corpse Connoisseur

    When the bake up these xpacs, personally, I think they should make a couple token zones for 85-100 and the 100-110 crowd. It sort of sucks to buy an xpac but if a person doesn't have a toon high enough to enjoy it sort of pointless.
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    That is a terrible idea. There are way more zones for those levels. There is zero need for more content for those levels.

    There is almost no content for max level players. This is it.
    Ssdar likes this.
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    ToV was a failure because it was a pass fail type of leveling expansion. Either you could do the all the missions and level up really fast or you were doomed to a very very long and slow grind.

    Next expansion won't have a level increase or so I assume so it's not as big a deal but I do think they should still give folks that haven't hit 115 yet a grinding path to 115.

    No Surprise those that usually blow through the content did so again. Just like they blow through levels. The ones it affected were those who either aren't as good at playing the game or who didn't have raid gear or who didn't have ready groups always on the go (either through social connections) or being able to box the content.

    A smarter move would to give decent exp grinding and then keep the mission exp path. Those that can do the missions easily will fly by the levels either way but those who have issues can level up at a reasonable rate and then go back to the missions. And those who generally dont get all the content done instantly are also those who generally have lots to do AFTER they max levels or aa. The folks finding the content more challenging have lots on the burner.

    Just some thoughts. I am sure some will tell me there is something terrible about folks being able to grind their levels but so be it :)
  16. Szilent Augur

    Your post reads to me like "this expansion wasn't good because people couldn't skip all the content by just grinding old zones that aren't even part of it." And then it tries to slip in the usual raid gear nonsense, which is pretty funny since a substantial part of this thread is folks saying they're not bothering to gear up from previous expansion group gear.
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Not to mention overseer, that let's people get 8-10% real exp per day if they are smart with it.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    No it read like it would have been much better if those who have issues with the content weren't penalized.

    I know a lot of folks who had problems with the content. And I have news for you. The progression missions are much easier now then they were to start with for the first few months. Guess why? Because a lot of folks were problems with them. It's still an issue for folks who have problems getting groups to do them now. Grinding levels isn't nearly as reliant on getting good groups. No reason to remove that path to leveling short of meeting some metric that showed people were doing missions.

    At launch I knew quite a few good group players who may not have been struggling but who weren't having a super easy time of it either. And those folks were all in previous expansion gear. Bit surprise over six months into the expansion they made things easier.

    And the fact is the same folks who breeze through other content breeze through ToV at launch so its no change to them except maybe they leveled a day faster.
  19. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    So again for many years leveling could be done via grinding but we have yet another instance of daybreak saying.. "hey all these folks have stuck with the game grinding exp lets change it to what they have stuck to us for". Makes no sense. And as for overseer I still have no interest in it. I dont want to play some mini game to level. I actually enjoy grinding level exp if its at a reasonable rate. I have no issues with the aa exp.

    The smart move would have been to not nerf the grinding path but just add the others. I mean go figure allowing folks to level whatever way they want. They didn't have to take anything away to do it.

    And then there is the whole overseer cash grab. So they make it much harder to grind levels away and voila we get Overseer where if you want to progress faster you buy agents in the marketplace. And yes I know you can play it without that. And cash grabs are fine Daybreak needs ways to make money. Early days of ToV people were making tons of kronos from folks paying for task adds someone had to buy those krono. I don't think it's their best strategy but it keeps the game going I guess.

    P.S. I enjoyed playing EQ for 21 years I have no interest in doing that with Overseer. Never been a min maxer so playing something that really has nothing to do with EQ to level in eq is of no interest to me.
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  20. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Anyway had my say so I am done now :) Unless anyone wants to keep talking to me about it.