Can Darkpaw pleeeaasse for the love of Pete fix rogues?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Rebelicious, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Rebelicious Augur

    Come on now, a one-trick pony meelee DPS class than does worse DPS in classic then every other class... and has literally no utility, whereas other classes have rez, mana feed, fd, self-heal, buffs for group... the best we can do is drag corpses.... and even then see invis will kill us because we have no evac, gate, fd. And, comparatively, have you even considered adjusting the thousands of plat it costs to level up weak, gimmicky poisons in classic that are virtually worthless... whereas a caster simply sits and waits for freee mana to outdps us 100x over. Did I say anything about the failed backstab ratio yet? Not only are you locked to positioning... but even positioned right the backstab fail rate at max skill is over 50%.
    FIX ROGUES!~ Bring them into balance...
    Dexxeaa00 likes this.
  2. Baliaan New Member

    Your kidding me right? Have you played rogue past classic at all? You do realize they get better and outdps most classes later. Zerkers are just as bad one trick ponies as well at least u get poisons
    WaitingforMoreEQ and ajschliewe like this.
  3. feigntrain Elder

    I don't know what parses you're looking at. Rogues are never good DPS. And I'm not even a rogue player looking for a buff. They just aren't good at anything at all outside of 1 single LDoN raid. Berserkers at least get a group buff, and they get the same utility out of their axes for basically free that rogues get from their expensive poisons.
  4. Rebelicious Augur

    Honestly, if you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from making false comments. In later expacs, Berserkers are #1 meelee DPS... which essentially means they replaced rogues entirely who remain behind monks in every expac and utterly outdone by berserker class.
    There is no other class in EQ who remains so helpless... especially in TLPS....a 100% group dependent class that groups don't want because enc pets do 10x more DPS, and they have ZERO utility... which should be a price paid for PURE DPS... that exceeds other classes with utility sufficient to make up for that loss,,, yet no one... wants to group a rogue outside of guilds and groups of personal friends. Reason being... why have a rogue, when you can have a monk... who can pull, self-heal, tank, and DPS better without being limited to positioning strictly behind the back?

    IF a rogue sacrifices all the utility of a monk (tank, pull, self-heal, FD, better non-positional DPS... hands down a rogue should have superior DPS in compensation for having literally NOTHING else. Isn't that the point of a PURE non-utility class? But when the class has mediocre DPS... it creates a class that is in desperate need of a buff... some improvement I think to backstabs, backstab fail ratio, relaxing the strict behind the mob requirement positioning, and some better poisons that don't cost a krono. A long time ago, rogues should have been EQUAL to berserkers in DPS output and have a bit of edge on MONK DPS. Instead rogues are a forgotten, overlooked class... while the Devs work on necro dots... I mean.. NECROS? The single most OP, solo class in game... and rogues who can do NOTHING without a group, have ZERO group desirability and struggle to find them.
  5. Hinastorm86 Augur

    The easiest thing they could do is give rogues full damage front stab like NPCs have, and simply buff their damage AA that melee gets automatically. Rogues, in their current state of no utility, should be the unquestioned top melee dps as long as that utility remains the same.

    I assume rogues get something in later eras? I don't know much about the 75+ game. They should consider moving some of their utility to earlier levels.
    Dexxeaa00 likes this.
  6. Rebelicious Augur

    Rogues get replaced by the new Berserker class which outshines them from the moment they arrive in game, as #1 melee DPS on parses.
  7. ajschliewe Elder

    FYI, rogues get a group buff at level 68 in DoDh called Thief's Eye, Increase Chance to Hit by 5% with All Skills.
  8. ajschliewe Elder

    Not sure where Rebelicious is getting her info from. But when I played on Phinny, my rogue was always top 5 on any parse usually averaging between 10% and 12% of Raid Boss health. When you can do an initial BS for 60K hp of damage at level 75, you are putting out a heck of a lot of dps. None of the zerkers in my guild ever came close in dps to me or the top monk.
  9. Dyzalot Augur

    I'd just be happy with the cooldown not going into effect when we try to BS without correct positioning. And yeah, maybe an increase in its "chance to hit".
    Dexxeaa00 likes this.
  10. ajschliewe Elder

    We eventually get a group buff for +5% chance to hit
  11. Master Kahleem Augur

    </Looks for the people who don't know anything about rogues saying they're just fine and don't need buffs>

    Oh hey look
  12. feigntrain Elder

    And that's super relevant to Rogues in Classic on TLPs... :rolleyes:
  13. ajschliewe Elder

    People need to realize that just because rogues aren't great in classic doesn't mean they will always suck. They get a big boost starting in GoD and just keep getting better.
  14. feigntrain Elder

    And never get good. Just better than awful.
  15. ajschliewe Elder

    So a level 75 rogue who can do a 60K initial BS is awful?
  16. feigntrain Elder

    You're really good at not reading things before you click the reply button. Or do you just not understand how "better than awful" doesn't mean "awful"?
  17. ajschliewe Elder

    that's not my definition of better than awful = less awful but still not good.
  18. JustDarryl Journeyman

    Let's all take a minute to reflect on ourselves, stare deeply within and consider positive and productive realistic alternatives to all of this.

    I'd suggest a good book on tape.

    But what do I know, I'm just Darryl.
  19. feigntrain Elder

    So by your definition I said "still not good" and then you accuse me of calling them "awful". Makes sense. Next!
  20. Moranis Augur

    Rogues are "great" DPS once they get the Ragebringer and get better w/ raid weapons in Velious. They never overtake monks, but are usually parsing only slightly behind come Kunark. That being said, their lack of useful utility should make them tops in melee DPS - which they never really become - BUT - I don't think they were ever intended to be the melee-DPS kings.

    My thought is that Rogues were meant to be great DPS and have some unique utility. Consider these (3) concepts which were likely meant to be important for rogues but either faded away or never really came into fruition:
    1. Corpse runs - Rogues had a legitimate niche role in retrieving corpses back in the day. When CRs went away, it was a huge blow to rogue usefulness.
    2. Locked Doors - I'm assuming locked doors were meant to be more of a "thing" than they ended up. Classic and Kunark used locked doors somewhat, but after that, the "lock pick" ability kinda faded out of use.
    3. Poisons - It has to be the case that when SoE created the Rogue class that they had more envisioned for their poison-making ability. They created an entire tradeskill that is nearly 100% useless until like the 15th expac. This is similar to potion-making honestly - potions were crap originally, but got revamped and brought into the TLPs. The same didn't happen for poisons.
    Rogues feel like the red-headed stepchild of EQ. The creators of the game seemed to want to make the Rogue a useful class, but throughout the development of the game, left them behind.
    To me, the solution is not to buff their melee DPS, but to give them the useful utility they were denied for the last 20 years.