NPCs in Classic through Luclin will inflict 20% less damage while charmed

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Risiko, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. feigntrain Elder

    How is necro and mage pets not breaking a player skill issue? What are you even talking about?

    I know you're not talking about fizzling being a player skill issue, because that's purely RNG.
    I know you're not talking about resist being a player skill issue, because that's purely RNG.
    I know you're not talking about interupts being a player skill issue, because that's RNG.
    I know you're not talking about early charm breaks being a player skill issue, because that's RNG.

    So I don't know wtf you're saying is a player skill issue.
  2. Lateryn Augur

    Are some people and the OP just dumb? Charm pets are doing way more then 20% of any class. This is a slight nerf. They will still do far more then a single or even multiple dps.

    There sure is a lot of dumb people in this thread though that act like charm would be suddenly useless.
  3. Acidjunkie New Member

    optimal group composition before nerf:
    ENC / ENC / ENC / ENC / CLE / any class that can pull mobs

    after 20% nerf:
    ENC / ENC / ENC / ENC / CLE / any class that can pull mobs

    spot the difference? Great - let's move on :)
    Dyzalot, Seor and Lateryn like this.
  4. Koshk Augur

    What is considered "risky" is entirely subjective, depending on situation and comfort level of the player. Not something I feel worth debating.

    Nor do I feel it's worth debating whether Some Charmed Pet = 3 Players or 3.75 Players. Also extremely subjective.

    But here are some facts.
    1. Maintaining a charmed pet requires some additional effort, beyond what other pet classes do. Measure that difference however you like. There is some effort in handling breaks.
    2. There is a recurring mana cost of maintaining a charmed pet.
    In return for extra effort + extra mana, the Enchanter gains a pet that is:
    1. Significantly tougher than any non-charmed pet.
    2. Does significantly more DPS than any non-charmed pet.
    That's how I see this mechanic.
    But debating whether it's fair that Pet A in Zone B has better Tankiness/DPS versus Player #123?
    Or whether it's fair that Pet A in Zone B is risky/not-risky/too-risky for Player #123 to handle, compared to the results?
    Not sure the point of that.
    Seor likes this.
  5. Risiko Augur

    The MMORPG genre is over 20 years old at this point. How many years is it going to take before people realize that Over Powered (OP) classes are NOT a bad thing?

    World of Warcraft and the thousands of other MMORPGs that were created after EverQuest almost all tried to do one main thing; balance classes. Look at how amazingly awesome that has been for them. Homogenized gameplay one after another where you can barely tell the difference between playing one class over another.

    Class balancing is the difference between modern MMOs and classic MMOs.

    Look at forms of fantasy writing that these games are based on. There is no balancing in them.

    Was Raistlin balanced? No! He became a God, destroyed everything he loved, and in the end sacrificed himself because of what he had become.

    Was Conan balanced? No. He beat the living crap out of everything he came across.

    As soon as I hit reply, I can guarantee you the people that have been trying to destroy this game for the past two decades will be along as quickly as possible to twist and denounce everything I have wrote here, but I promise you there is a very large populous of people that don't post on these forums that would agree with me.

    Class balance is the quickest way to destroy an MMORPG. EverQuest was not designed with class balance in mind. If anything, the original core design of EverQuest was based ON the lack of class balance. You needed other classes.

    Please stop destroying EverQuest.
  6. Remedial New Member

    When you have 450 enchanters and 60 rogues and 12 paladins, it is already homogenized. This is the issue right now. Classes that under perform are dropping by the wayside because we have been trained by 20+ years of new MMOs to min/max.
    Seor likes this.
  7. curious2 Lorekeeper

    yes, but saying charming was classic isnt correct either
    it lasted max about 3 minutes in classic and charisma did matter. i was there, i killed the 3 dwarves in butcher for 13 levels. it was not a constantly used spell, it was a gimmick
    Thalliius and Seor like this.
  8. Draconum Elder

    Didn't read through all of the posts, hoping someone else covered it by now but if not -

    I feel like you are being super dramatic?

    The example in my head is currently a rock golem I am charming in The Hole - let's say he hits for an average of 160 damage per swing not including double hits. 20% less would mean he's hitting for 32 points less, so 128 damage per hit? Still well above any melee dps currently available.

    About to log in to start testing the math, but I feel like this post is a bit jumping the gun unless it's already been shown to be much less than 20%.
  9. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    /GU A rock golem in 58s, 12202 @210 4650 Necro+level 43 pet | Big Charm pet 3850 | Rat Charm pet 2399 | SK 1303

    BUT BUT GUISE CHARM IS OP

    Optimal Group before the nerfs in Classic
    4x Mage Cleric Chanter
    Optimal Group after
    4x Mage Cleric Chanter
    Optimal Group in Kunark
    4x Monk Cleric Chanter
    Optimal Group in Velious
    3x Monk Ranger Bard Shaman
    Optimal Group in Luclin
    3x Ranger SK Bard Shaman

    The Class that's OP in groups and sucks on Raids isn't even OP in groups anymore outside of Classic/Kunark, but they still get to suck massive and be buff bots on 98% of raids.
  10. Lateryn Augur


    Overpowered classes are a bad thing. No matter how much nonsense you spout, anyone with a brain realizes it. If you can't see that and think a small 20% nerf is suddenly making chanters not overpowered you are even more dumb them I thought. 20% is barely a hit against their power compared to every other dps. Literally nothing is going to change except the pets do a 20% less damage. They are still far above any other dps and even multiple dps. They require small effort to maintain and even double as a tank. They are sitll brokenly OP and I wouldn't be shocked to see further nerfs.

    Being OP has zero to do with homogenization btw.
    Sokanist, Thalliius and Seor like this.
  11. SoandsoForumUser Augur

    ... You spent a minute killing a golem with two charm pets? Are you casting slow on them or just not sending them in until 40%?
  12. Tierdal Augur

    wut?
  13. MileyVyrus Elder

    Lol right? Grats! get those beta high-fives flowing as you celebrate in the Aradune queue! Your rogue is TOTALLY gonna get grouped now.. But lets make some new threads just to make sure!
  14. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    ???
    you bad at the game or are you wanting 2x Cleric, 2x Chanter, Bard, Wiz as the "best" group cause of Deep AoE?
  15. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    /GU A rock golem in 58s, 12202 @210 4650 Necro+level 43 pet | Big Charm pet 3850 | Rat Charm pet 2399 | SK 1303

    Explain how Charm is "op" here?

    Pro tip you can't
  16. Hinastorm86 Augur

    You're a clown.

    Nothing has been destroyed. In fact, the nerf wasn't enough to change anything. Enchanters are still mandatory in any group setup if you care at all about speed and efficiency.

    I wanted charm nerfed so enchanters didn't feel required. This 20% charm nerf does not change that.

    I hate this new normal of gamers reading nerfs and calling things destroyed. So dumb.
    Sokanist and Thalliius like this.
  17. error Augur

    Honestly it's kind of weird that it only applies to classic through Luclin. Charmed pets in PoFire are probably the most egregious example of charm being over the top. Maybe they didn't want to effect current content on Mangler?
  18. Hinastorm86 Augur

    It IS a bad thing when they feel mandatory, and your group feels awful without one. This really is not hard bud.

    And hows that lack of class balance treating rogues? Ya. Balance matters.
    Thalliius likes this.
  19. Weebles101 Journeyman

    It’s a player skill issue if you are not playing in such a way that the “risk” of those things is negligible. None of those things should result in death if played correctly. And playing “correctly” isn’t even difficult, it’s like a 3 step flow chart.

    And to the poster above me, obviously this is highly dependent on context, but if all the necro is doing is dpsing, and enchanter is doing 80% of his damage but wait also mezzing 3 mobs, and also keeping the melee hasted, and also keeping clarity on the casters, and oh yeah also AoE stunning heals as needed... yeah, that’s probably too strong a combination of damage and utility.
  20. Xyroff-cazic. Director of Sarcasm

    Lol, you actually think the developers implementing design changes such as this charm nerf are the same people that are in charge of server stability? Do you also complain to the teenager collecting the shopping carts in the parking lot because he raised the price on Cheetos by 24 cents?
    Thalliius likes this.