Raid mob strikethrough and skill check formula

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Gazzi, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Gazzi New Member

    If you raid, tank and parse, you do see that we have 0% dodge/block during raid events due to strikethrough of the mobs.

    Only formula of I found on skill checks is that one ( for dodge skill by example )

    Step1 = HeroicStrikethrough(NPC)
    Step2 = HeroicAgility / 25
    Step3 = MIN( Step1, Step2 )
    Step4 = DodgeSkill + 100
    Step5 = Step4 + ( DodgeSkill * DodgeSPA ) / 100
    Step6 = Step5 / 45
    DodgeChance = Step6 + ( Step2 - Step3 )

    We clearly see from the formula that the hStrikethrough just negate our bonus from our hAgi. It is therefore impossible to have 0% chance to dodge ( or you have 0 in skill ).

    So I guess that formula don't apply anymore. Also, is there a difference about Strikethrough and HeroicStrikethrough for mobs ? Do you guys have any clue of correct formula matching that 0% dodge ?
  2. Riou EQResource

    Strikethrough counters all avoidance, Heroic Strikethrough just counters the Heroic stat portion as you can see from that, regular Strikethrough would directly counter DodgeChance in that formula part (plus all the other ones)

    Raid mobs are intended to have 100% strikethrough
  3. Gazzi New Member

    thanks. Makes more sens now. Speaking about strikethrough means regular Strikethrough along heroicStrikethrough. The hStrikethrough from mobs counter our heroic stats to ponder if we success the ability test. If we success that test, I guess a new formula is applied with the Strikethrough of mob to negate that success. Mob having 100% strikethrough doesn't mean 100% success of bypassing skills tho.
    If I use flash of anger, I am still able to parry a raid mob with whatever Strikethrough/hStrikethrough he got. I guess the +10000% parrying affects the DodgeSPA and final % is something like
    max(0,(%of chance of previous formula-regularStrikethrough))
  4. p2aa Augur

    Yeah, raid mobs don't need 100 % Hstrikethrough. As regular strikethrough is the last thing checked in the active defensive skill order operations, just need to set it at 100 % to negate every possible successful riposte / parry /dodge etc.
  5. josh Augur

    it's all skills just so it's clear, dodge, parry, riposte and block. none work on raid mobs.

    As far as bonuses from skills like flash of anger work, I'm pretty sure there is just a line of code that says, if your skill mod is 10000%, ignore all the math and you are just guaranteed to successfully parry.
  6. Gazzi New Member

    I doubt it is done that way, I have more respect for devs ;-)
  7. josh Augur


    well, i have no idea why you think that deserves less respect, that's a good way to do it, given the way the rest of the code is known to work. why do the math when it isn't necessary to do the math? less processing time.
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    Not quite.

    We still get the credit for defensive checks as we see with our belt procs and defensive proc buffs going off. We then get hit by a strike though after the calculations and side-effects are applied.
  9. p2aa Augur

    Playing with words, what I meant was that you don't avoid the attack, you get hit 100 %.
  10. Kurage_of_Luclin Augur

    It might be better if raid mobs had 50% strike through
  11. Wulfhere Augur

    Not playing. My response is also to what Josh said. You're quote is only part of that story.
  12. Gazzi New Member

    Btw i developed my own parser, I am able to see all the dps we take breakdowned to every attack source. What is see is that even in group content, the mobs have a very high regular strikethrough ( 80%/90% ). Their number of normal hits is just ridiculous.
    I guess devs had to introduce very high strikethrough/h-strikethrough because there is no way a mob will hit us enough with our current level/number of defensive skills.
  13. Wulfhere Augur

    They didn't have to. The Devs decided to negate all the defensive skills that you spend so much time and effort improving on your character. They've never given a rationale as to why they gutted our game-play with this overriding simplification. It's not saving on the compute as the checks are still calculated.

    A related problem is that PCs can achieve 100% strike-through as well (we really really shouldn't).

    The end result is that NPC and PC alike are assured a stable DPS with less dynamic spikes. There are no strings of defensive successes that create intervals of lower DPS and entertaining combat. Melee has devolved into hits and misses, at 6+ swings per second (at the higher levels). The only thing you can do is mitigate the hits with AC and increase the misses with AGI/hAGI. It's predictably boring.

    I believe melee combat has been broken for many years, in that it is less random and less interesting (fun), because of these changes. I would like the old designs reinstated so that character skills matter and NPC and PC alike have fair chances to defend themselves.
  14. josh Augur

    You are still playing with words as i also made no comment on whether or not the skill activates. Both of us know that, and both of us have pointed it out in other threads many times.
  15. Tucoh Augur

    This is also combined with the 100% or near 100% crit rate melee enjoy these days. Mudflation is a btich.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  16. Wulfhere Augur

    Yep and crits are hate free extra damage too. So the damage graphs are going up and up while the NPC hate list remains relatively flat.
  17. Wulfhere Augur

    If I had included your other quote, where you suggest the rationale I was refuting, would that make my post less objectionable?

  18. josh Augur


    I feel like you didn't read what i said. Maybe you should try again. That is in reference to skills that give you 10000% riposte/parry/dodge/block, rather than doing all the math to determine if you were hit, they just guarantee that you aren't hit.

    if you have a 10k percent mod, then skip all the math and the rolling and just activate the skill and avoid the hit. In that scenario your skill definitely activated and you weren't hit as well.

    This could be wrong, but it has nothing to do with what you are talking about, I'm not pulling this out of thin air either.

    edit: the word is censored so i assume we aren't allowed to talk about that, im not pulling it out of thin air, do some googling site:github.com to see where i got it from
  19. Wulfhere Augur

    I did and I disagree. For example, no class has an abilitiy that mods ALL of those skills at once which is the only condition where I might agree with you.

    Example: I enable Shield Block, which is the last check in the formula. I can still riposte (for a chance to do damage!) etc. before a shield block has to protect me from a swing. I think logs support that that is what's happening and I think it should be that way. I believe the Devs concur too because they proved that premise when they promoted misses to the first check to "reduce server load" (which I disagree with in terms of melee mechanics).
  20. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    I'm not sure what aspect you're disagreeing with, but in the case of the 10k% mods like Weaponshield, EQ does a shortcut check and bypasses the actual combat code, which is why those abilities still work when raid mobs have had 100% strikethrough for years now. (Which was not so much a "design decision" than an unintentinal thing, but it's gotten to "Necro Epic" levels where it's been left alone because it would take a LOT of rebalancing to fix properly).


    The change to miss was to add a similar shortcut check. If you roll a riposte, by definition you can't also parry/dodge/block because the combat code doesn't bother checking those since you already riposted. But, they could still *miss* which meant all of those prior checks were wasted computer cycles. Multiplied by every hit in the combat round, on every single player.

    Realistically there are likely several other places EQ combat code should short cut (like procs) that would save a large number of processing cycles for other things. And I'm glad for ANY changes that focus on reducing server lag which is atrocious these days.
    Szilent likes this.