Ideas for compensation

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Benito, May 27, 2020.

  1. Cicelee Augur

    I wonder what is going to happen when the game sunsets in a couple years. What are some of you going to do with yourself? You are angry and mad at a couple missed days of downtime, I shudder when you are told you cannot play your virtual toon anymore...
  2. eqgamer Augur

    It's sunsettling in a couple years?
  3. Benito EQ player since 2001.



    I am neither angry nor mad.

    I want the game to retain customers, gain revenue, and continue to operate with a display of excellent customer service.
    Xyphen, cadres and Vumad like this.
  4. Cicelee Augur

    It is what I think is going to happen. I base it on when the lifetime subscriptions cease to provide reasonable income, which is 3 years after they were introduced. I figure once that money is gone within three years, I think they have enough in the coffers for another year or two before the game is no longer financially feasible for DPG.

    Now I say all of this is 100% my opinion with no facts behind (outside of the hundreds and thousands of lifetime memberships that were sold).
  5. KermittheFroglok Augur


    That statement doesn't make any sense, DBG already has the cash and DBG is a privately held company, so when they recognize the revenue doesn't really matter much. Also there are three other games bundled into AllAccess.

    From what I understand ~6,000 lifetime membership were sold, but even if it were 10,000 (4,000 limit from original announcement page + 6,000 limit on updated page) that would only be ~$3 million dollars, gross (i.e. before) taxes. From the perspective of there holding company that's probably not a lot of money and was likely used to finance a project like PlanetSide Arena or whatever they needed cash for a the time.

    When EQ gets sunset it is going to come down to cost to maintain versus cash coming in from EQ. We're not even in "maintenance mode" yet, and DPG wouldn't be launching new servers if the goal were to be. But looking at our number of servers, even post merge, I gather we might even be DPG's cash cow.

    Will EQ get shutdown, inevitably yes, all games/services won't last forever. Are the significant indicators here, not really.
    Tarvas likes this.
  6. Marton Augur

    I'm not angry and mad; I'm, however, dissatisfied with something that we - or most of us - pay for.

    Considering how past few months went, it would not kill Daybreak to throw people some exp potions or illusion clickes.
  7. KermittheFroglok Augur


    I think it's important for everyone to remember that DPG & DBG while the same company are not organizationally the same, publisher vs. studio.

    DPG probably can't unilaterally give out freebies overnight over all of this and the higher ups in DBG would probably need to green light that after some analysis. It's not like they're going to just give away things like rare illusions they'd sell loot crates for, or potions people usually buy.

    AllAccess is a DBG wide service and they're not likely to grant extra time because EQ has had issues. DPG might give us something if DBG is okay with it, but realistically speaking it'd probably come out of the budget from some other thing they were going to do for member appreciation, or more likely (if it happens) just be a brief server wide exp. modifier. (e.g. We've received free cosmetic familiars in the past, I could see them giving us one now instead of when they originally planned.)

    The server outages are unfortunate but they don't change the administrative and budget restraints I suspect DPG already has to adhere to.

    DBG has been better. For example, when EQ Next & Landmark were cancelled, to my knowledge, none of us received refunds. While when PlanetSide Arena was cancelled they did refund people that bought early access. We can hope that they'll try to save face and make a PR gesture, but we can't really demand anything. Technically speaking, we're not owed anything.
  8. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    I will still protest slow belts being nerfed. Indeed.
  9. Cicelee Augur

    I will explain those sentences hopefully better.

    Assume 6000 accounts bought a lifetime subscription. Now, assume that never happened. Each lifetime subscription was $300, which is basically three years worth of you buy an annual. Again, assuming lifetime subscriptions never happened, those 6000 accounts would be paying at worst $100 for an annual sub. In year four, they are still paying for a subscription of $100 per. So assuming those 6000 accounts are still playing in year 4, at minimum DPG is going to see income of $600,000 for the year from those accounts. And I am guessing all 6000 are not buying annual subscriptions, but they could be doing six months or three months or even monthly. So I figure that number would be higher.

    When 6000 accounts paid $300, they were basically buying three year's worth of time from a sales standpoint- in theory, if you buy three years at $100 per or one big payment of $300, either way that is $300. However now that they bought lifetime subscriptions, when year 4 comes around DPG is going to see $0 of income from those 6000 accounts as far as a monthly/quarterly/annual subscription cost goes. I do not know how DPG can replace $600k or higher of revenue just like that in year 4. And that is why I say that when year four hits, the game could no longer be fiscally feasible to keep open... hence sunset.

    Now I realize my theory has flaws in it. Kronos for one, who knows if those 6000 accounts would be playing in years 2 and 3 if it was not for the lifetime subscription, I do not know how many active non kronos paying accounts are there in EQ, I do not know how much money EQ has in the coffers to sustain a loss of $600k each year, and others. I get it. I am just saying this is what I think...
  10. minimind The Village Idiot

    You mention that compensation is warranted, but it's not. It's explicitly spelled out in the EULA that by playing the game you acknowledge that you are not due any type of compensation for the game being unavailable.

    Section 1.5 of the EULA
    Scheduled and Unscheduled Service Interruptions
    Games are "online" games that must be played over the internet. Daybreak reserves the right to interrupt, modify (including, without limitation, adding or removing servers), suspend, cancel or terminate the Software or any Game(s) with or without prior notice for any reason or no reason. You agree that neither Daybreak (nor its licensors, licensees and/or service providers, if applicable) will be liable for any interruption, delay and/or failure of the Software and/or any Game(s) to perform, and you understand that you shall not be entitled to any refund of fees for Paid Content (defined in Section 3 below) or other compensation for interruption to your use of the Software an/or any Game(s) or any failure of the Software and/or any Game(s) to perform.

    Customer service is a wholly different discussion and it's significantly more strategic than most people know because few people realize that operations and customer service are strongly related by finance, morale, and business integrity. I can give some insight.

    1. Never promise compensation before all problems have been fixed. If you do, the compensation will be assumed to amend issues perceived up to the time the compensation is committed, but not for issues after the compensation is committed. There will then be demands for MORE compensation.

    2. Never let the customer determine the compensation nor the timing of the compensation. In fact, never let the customer think they can have any more control than "input" over your operations. If you do, that influence will be held as precedence and if the customer can multiply the force of his/her voice to apply undue pressures. (Instead select trusted customers to serve as a focus group of advisors.)

    3. Many customers care about your business. Not all of them understand what it takes to keep it running. As such, the customer is not always right. The only businesses that can afford that motto have money to burn and don't care about employee retention.

    4. The business-customer relationship is not always symbiotic. Some customers are strategic expoiters who seek to obtain undue benefits and then use public pressure to fulfill that commitment again and again. You must be similarly strategic. (This is why "Customer Service" and "Strategic Communications/PR" are related, but not the same thing.)

    5. If irrational customers convince you to cave to pressures, rational customers will begin to expect the same thereby amplifying an expense and/or harming the integrity of your business.

    Most small businesses won't tell you that they follow the above tips, but they do. It sounds callous and goes against the the corporate PR of the last 30-40 that the customer should always have it "their way" because "they're always right", but that was seriously all marketing.
    code-zero and KermittheFroglok like this.
  11. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    Are you arguing about the slippery slope/moral hazard (of digital resources: pixels) when nearly everyone agrees that the downtime is unprecedented?

    If this downtime will be standard/normal, and we do indeed run into the slippery slope/moral hazard that you highlight, then we have bigger issues than voluntary compensation....
  12. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    That is not how businesses work.

    The moment that money was accrued it was gone in terms of calculating anything. 1 day later or 3 years later is completely irrelevant.

    Vanguard lasted like 4 years down to TWO servers (one euro and one U.S.).

    There are as many EQ1 servers as for ALL other games they have combined (EQ1, DCUO, H1Z1, Planetside, etc).

    They are actively making new expansions. There is zero percent chance this game isn't around in 5 years and very little chance it isn't around in 10 years.

    The "end" sign won't be until they stop making expansions. They you still probably have 3-4 more years in maintenance mode.
  13. Angahran Augur

    That whole 16 cents a day is too much ?
    There is no guarantee of servers being available at all, much less 24/7/365, so there is nothing to be 'compensated' for.
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Oh, and no, they don't owe any of you anything.

    This is beyond sad. The word gauche comes to mind.
  15. nemotech Lorekeeper

    How about an apology (done), taking note of events and circumstance that caused the issue, and putting effort into avoiding such in the future. maybe changing or instituting protocols/precedure if that would avoid/remedy or reduce the chances of the errors/problem(s) from occurring in the future. in all fairness/reality, it (EQ) is entertainment, and while I pay/sub to play, I am more miffed at losing pets on a crash and rollback, than I am about being compensated. I just don't understand the "must compensate me for my inconvenience.." EQ went down, I played another game and then watched some TV with my wife. Tried the next day and we played EQ. I believe the team at DPG do their best, and there are certainly mitigating and external circumstance that interferes and influences daily operations. Those are not necessarily any of our concern or business. many of us work in IT, are Dev's or code for ourselves or as a hobby, and know well that stuff happens. never intended or due to negligence, and despite best efforts stuff breaks, fails and you can only remedy and learn from it. I don't want or need my .36 cents or penance from DPG. just fix it and ..oh Increase Rare spawns is nice :rolleyes: I kid.... I kid (on the square) lulz gonna go try and finish Hunter Achi's =)
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    If you "need" an apology for an internet based service not working for a few hours, you need therapy.
    code-zero likes this.
  17. Honeycomb New Member


    People who pay for a subpar product and are terrified of losing access to that product can't really be considered as making reasonable decisions. I get it. For some of you this is your retirement plan and you will fight tooth and claw for it, but it's a shoddy product and the only reason it continues is because of the TLPs and the associated whales that play multiple accounts. It's a downward spiral. The strain drain. I don't blame the devs whatsoever and feel for them but it doesn't negate the fact that EQ has been rinsed and squeezed for awhile now.
  18. Xyphen Maximum Augur

    It's
    There is a "YMMV" of server crashes for people. If, for example, you were:

    Working on Planeslayer and PoP flags for months, contending with MQers running AFK scripts on spawn points, including having to be physically available for over 3 days (with variance) for Aerin`dar and Bertox...

    ... to then have those timers reset twice, to then have the server crash 10 mins after the Bertox kills + achievement, to then be rolled back and lose them (which GMs can't reset or reimburse).

    ...then you're probably a lot more pissed than the dude running laps around PoK out of boredom.

    I've been an empathetic advocate for the devs on these forums and vocal against unreasonable compensation for the players. Asking for money back is stupid. Asking for a weekend of double spawns isn't unreasonable at all. Pretending to "man up" by berating everyone critical of DBG's lack of PR is also stupid.

    Especially since DBG's lifeblood is customer loyalty.
  19. Benito EQ player since 2001.

    I'll be the first to admit that I am a Daybreak apologist. (I get blasted on the EQ2 forums for defending Daybreak/Darkpaw against the negative nancys). I get it.

    The really sad part is instead of staying civil in a fairly constructive original post, some people lodge personal attacks ("this is sad", etc). Then, those same people expect respect when they post about their own issues or put in their two cents. Yup.
  20. Benito EQ player since 2001.


    I am not sure what is more sad in this case. A fairly civil and constructive original post (acknowledging limitations and criticism) or a fairly childish (ad hominem) response.