Spell: Force of the Jade Cohort

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Stephen51, May 23, 2020.

  1. Stephen51 Augur

    This expansion Paladins got 4 stun spells which are;

    Sincere Force (Lvl 111) - Channels the forces of ancient valor, stunning your target for up to 4 seconds. This spell works on creatures up to 118. Timer 4

    Lesson of Propitiation (Lvl 112) - Strikes home a lesson, stunning your enemy (up to level 118) for up to 10 seconds and doing 1222 damage. The spell will do 2383 damage to undead, vampire, or animated undead enemies. Knockback 5. Timer 6

    Force of the Grotto (lvl 115) - Strikes your target with a great force, generating 12626 hatred in them and stunning them for up to 4 seconds. This effect works on creatures up to level 118. Timer 5.

    The spells above are rk 2 except Lesson of Prop which is rkI and I don't use very often because of the knockback.

    The last stun is;

    Force of the Jade Cohort (Lvl 115) - Strikes your target with great force, generating 12626 hatred in them and stunning them for 6 seconds. This spell will only work on Vampires, undead, or animated undead creatures. Timer 5.

    Can anyone explain (community or Dev) what the point of this last spell is? Firstly its capped at 115. Where as the others are capped at 118, plus its on the same timer as one of those spells.

    If there is no good reason, its sad that it hasnt been scrapped because this is not it's first incarnation.
    Durris likes this.
  2. Defjam Journeyman

    I believe Jade Cohort stuns for 6 seconds instead of 4.
  3. Qbert Gallifreyan

    It has been pointed out/requested for a fix ad nauseum during the last beta periods where it was a spell line (same issue in RoS with Orthiss). It was ignored, as with most things spell-related.

    The benefit of the slightly longer stun effect is offset by the undead-only flag, making it a niche spell already. That should not screw with the level cap of the spell's effects.
  4. Wulfhere Augur

  5. Transporter Lorekeeper

    Dev's just hate paladins. Hell we didn't even get a covenant spell from TBL, Splash should be a PBaE, free target tends to be buggy at times and on some landscapes you get the red circle of death. some abilities should be aa like our temp hp buff, alternate group heal, tie audacity to protest as well and increase the hate mod to reflect it.
    Qimble likes this.
  6. Stephen51 Augur

    As this has now been "fixed" a thought occurs about this spell.

    Firstly though thank you to the Dev's who took the time to correct/amend the spell.

    However now it occurs to me that although this spell stuns up to level 120 undead only, there isnt any/many level 119+ undead in game that are not tagged as stun immune.

    I think that Darkpaw should consider changing or discontinuing this line. In it's current incarnation there isnt any reason to mem this over a regular stun.

    If this had been fixed in TOV, then it may have had some use because some zones were undead only and the better resist mod + longer stun would have been useful. but you still need to rule out it's use on Kael giants, which were stun immune, mindless orcs in Velks, all named and raid mobs to name but a few.

    However going forward how many more undead only/heavy zones will there be?

    What would make the spell better would be make it stun the undead stun immune mobs, but I imagine Darkpaw may see that as overpowered.

    Perhaps then its time for a change of tack. We could use an upgrade to our DPS discs. Holyforge - level 55 and Pureforge - level 90, could use new versions?
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    If you use it versus stun able undead, in place of the regular stun, you will notice the longer stun duration is significant.

    As to the overall viability of undead only paladin spells, I agree that they have never balanced the class vs all content. Even the undead line of nukes evolved into all target nukes with better damage vs undead and summoned mobs. Then later, new higher damage undead nukes were introduced to compliment those all purpose nukes.

    I think the main reason that the existing stun line wasn't enhanced in this way is because of possible SPA 21 limitations and the different resist checks. I don't know if it can be done simply.

    I propose that Timer 5 spells for Force and Crush be combined into one spell. Paladins have learned to combine their magic at higher levels and it's a natural progression. We should not have to choose between damage or stun, and Lesson spells prove that we can do both. I don't propose combining the Timer 6 variants mainly because of the push on Lesson spells (that I would want to retain distinctly).
    yepmetoo likes this.