The patch notes posted on allakhazam says, Was there a purpose behind this? Was storing these tradeskill components in a tradeskill component bags not intended? Will this happen to more tradeskill components? Did Allakhazam get the patch notes wrong or trying to trick us?
I belive the flags are just being removed off of specific no fail quest items. Their usage does not count towards achiving 350 skill level.
The Ceramic Skull of Decay, is made from the Foul Smelling Liquid. There are many other components used in combines that are no-fail (e.g. spider silks). None of the steps along the way to making it are quest related. Making it does count toward 350 and is a learnable recipe. Some of the components they listed are also used in making the Odylic Vial, but that doesn't (or shouldn't) impact them being a component of regular planar pottery.
yeah every item there is used to make glazes for pottery, while that initial combine technically isn't a tradeskill combine (as its a no fail combine in a glaze mortar which has no skill assigned to it) they are still technically tradeskill items because the glazes themselves are used to make planar pottery items.
The Runed Sea Shell (enduring breath) is also only used in a no-fail combine that is later used in regular combine, much in the same way that these various tradeskill components are, yet it has a tradeskill flag (according to lucy) and wasn't listed as losing it.
Dyes are combined using an item produced by Alchemy or poison making and a store bought trade skill component (resin) however the combine to produce the dye is in a non-tradeskill container and is no-fail. At present this change is a minor annoyance but if they continue with this policy sites like EQ traders will need to decide if they will stop listing them, effectively meaning there may be no record of how you complete the combine and it creates a problem for the in game tradeskiller for storage.
/headdesk Here's the thread for the genesis of the changes: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/oil-of-a-frog.265565/#post-3903852 Early in that thread, there's a link to an earlier discussion: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/odylic-vial-recipe.261843/#post-3855282 And I know there have been questions on the subject in the past. The short of it is - the listed items lost their tradeskill flag because the people wanting to change Oil of the Frog pissed off the tradeskill dev by claiming to know the system better (some epic pre-adult-like whining in the first thread). Which this thread is attempting to do again. Primarily because folks only read what they want to. The long (which partially is my interpretation of what Ngreth has said/not said over the years): Tradeskills are not just combines in any container, but a set of specific containers where the container uses one of the 12 tradeskills (main 7, alchemy, fishing, poisonmaking, research, tinkering) player skill as a guide for successful combines. There can be multiple containers for one of the 12 (like pottery wheels and kilns are used for pottery etc.). There's also a special interface for each tradeskill container where you can looking up recipes that a character has combined/been granted automatically or via scribing a book or via quest reward (like the new ear recipes in ToV). There can be a small subset of combines in each tradeskill container where the combine ALWAYS succeeds. Why? Mainly due to legacy I think, but they exist. The combines are normal … you can get skillups from them (try making Celestial Essences on a character with Baking skill zero … you can get to 15 from the combines). These are referred to as no fail combines. [Side note: this can go the other way as well by setting internal flags … Jewelers Glass Lens is a trival of 50, but the success rate on combine is far lower than the base system would normally be] Containers where there is no tradeskill attached are not considered tradeskill combines. The glaze mortar is one of these. You can have a pottery skill of zero and make every glaze there is. You will always succeed and your pottery skill will still be zero, no matter how many glazes you make. People mistakenly refer to these combines as no fail … but since the container is not a tradeskill container, fail or no fail really has no meaning here. Put the right stuff in, hit combine, always get a certain product - regardless of toon's skill in any of the tradeskills. There's just no interaction period with the tradeskill system. So … any item that is solely part of a glaze mortar combination is not a tradeskill item. There are a few items, like liquified earth, which are used in a glaze but also used in other combines which are in a tradeskill container...these items did not lose their tradeskill flags. Also, since the combine is a new item … there is nothing inconsistent about a glaze mortar combine product able to be a tradeskill item … as long as the product is used in a tradeskill container. Why did all solely glaze mortar combine items have tradeskill flags except Oil of the Frog? By mistake. The tradeskill item flag that appears on item inspect screens was not originally implemented by Ngreth and had many errors. Over time, almost all items now display the correct flag/no flag and have had their properties changed to match the general tradeskill item properties (stack to 1000, go into specific tradeskill component bags, etc.). But there are exceptions to every system, especially a 21 year old one. There are some legacy items that Ngreth had purposely/conveniently ignored to make things easier for the tradeskill community. All the glaze components except Oil of the Frog benefited from this. The intermediate dye extracts are another as mentioned. But make no mistake - this was an error based upon the parameters of the tradeskill item system who Ngreth is the primary arbiter (technically all the devs have a say, but at least from what I've seen … all other devs pretty much leave Ngreth alone on the tradeskill system as far as judgement calls). But Ngreth is ultimately human … and calling him out on trival issues will produce results which are consistent with anyone being challenged in their area of expertise and especially where you write the rules. P.S. The runed sea shell combine IS in a tradeskill container, thus the tradeskill flag is appropriate. No fail has nothing to do with anything. P.P.S. I have no idea at this point why people are trying to bring up other items to be changed.
That has a tradeskill tag because unlike the glaze combine items, that item is actually combined in a tradeskill container and uses a tradeskill to do so (poisonmaking or baking). The no fail part of it is irrelevant. Like I've said before, the original sin was introducing a non-tradeskill container to do tradeskill combines...it should never have happened.
I understand more thoroughly the definitions and agree with Ngreth on his decision (Like he cares what I think). The rational reason behind the disagreement with him is it just seems NON-Logical (or maybe a Bad Precedent to set) using quest items to make items that turn into TS flagged items. Lol, then I read what I just wrote...... and it doesn't really sound Non-Logical at all.... I hope the items are now at least marked as quest. They are quested items use to make Tradeskill items....
The problem these changes bring is there is even more items now that are used (after some minor process) that are used in Tradeskills that no longer give any indications that they have a use, meaning many of these items will be sold as vendor trash. The easiest solution would have been to give all items used in Tradeskills (even those who need to change form) the Tradeskill tag. We are now in need of either tagging all vendor trash with a Vendor trash tag or adding a new "Used in Tradeskills later" tag for those items used in glazes and Ivory! After all wasn't the Tradeskill tag added originally to help players not sell items which had a use.
Doesn't Ivory fall under this rule? It used to say tradeskill, then it didn't, since you have to imbue it first.
Ivory has no other used until it is imbued. Therefore it falls under the guidelines Ngreth has set. Once it is imbued, it becomes TS flagged. You couldn't even mark it as quest item, as it has no use in any quests I know of.
What about all of the DoN items that are still marked tradeskill but not used in any recipes. All of the silk worms etc.
EQTraders doesn't even have a field to record the "Tradeskill" flag. I won't be making any changes there to remove combines just because they are made in a glaze mortar (or a grease jar or other type of jar). The link you get on the item to "Find recipes that use this item" is purely because that item is linked in a table to a combine that we've entered.
In general, if an item is used in a TLP only recipe (classic recipe that was retired from live), as the same data is used between TLP and live it will retain the tradeskill flag even if the recipe is not active. There was a sweep a few years ago identifying items with TS flag that were not associated with any recipes in the database to have the flag removed. If it's still in game as TS and not part of classic recipes on TLP, it may have been missed in the pass/inaccurate query. If it's just player sites showing it as TS, then that site is inaccurate and needs to be updated (or have the classic recipe re-added and noted as TLP only).
Some friends and I were joking the other night in discord about what we would do if we suddenly owned DBG. My first move would be to fire Ngreth. So many mistakes and errors and oversights on his part. So many unnecessary changes that end up causing headaches for players and CS staff. His "behind the scenes" activities, like nerfing the store bought mount buffs recently, are almost always a total disaster and are obviously not planned well nor are they implemented well at all.
